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Sorry, We're Not Living in Orwell's "1984"


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#91    Likely Guy

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 05:13 AM

View PostThe Silver Thong, on 11 July 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:




LOL I grew up in Nakusp BC and know folk that lived like that. Very hard to hide these days.

A large bulk of the town were draft dodgers due to vietnam.

Was in Nakusp once in the 1980's for the hell of it. Cool little town, nice mix of people.

As far as Vietnam draft dodgers, Likely had about 3 or 4. As far as being off grid, it was very easy then - and people are still doing it. If you're younger than 20 or 30 though, yeah, it's improbable if not impossible.

Based on the length of my response, I'm obviously on dial-up :).


#92    Likely Guy

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 05:27 AM

View PostLikely Guy, on 11 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:


I think that 'reality' lies somewhere between my viewpoint and yours.

I said that, and I still think that. It'd be interesting to get someone's viewpoint who lives in London. The most 'captured' place on the planet.

Fantastic city, been there twice, promised myself that I'd go back again. I couldn't see enough in 10 lifetimes. :)


#93    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:05 AM

The following excerpts are from an article written by the founder and CEO of Mashable.

Quote

Increasingly, consumers are tracking their every move and posting this data online.


Unlike in Orwell's dystopian world, however, people today are making a conscious choice to do so.

*snip*

If this sounds invasive, remember that users choose to share all this information. Increasingly, it seems there's a demand for services that share every facet of your life.

The difference between this reality and Orwell's vision -- outlined in his chilling 1949 novel -- is the issue of control: While his Thought Police tracked you without permission, some consumers are now comfortable with sharing their every move online.

*snip*

The world of 2012 is both reminiscent of Orwell's vision and radically at odds with it. Connected lifestyles are creating a world in which sharing your activities may become the norm, albeit through choice and not coercion. And yet this connected society is also empowering people in new ways, providing a counterweight to big business and big government.

While Orwell correctly predicted that technological advances would let authorities track our lives, he failed to predict the inverse: That we would use these new technologies to keep an eye on them, too.

Why 2012, despite privacy fears, isn't like Orwell's 1984


#94    third_eye

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 01:35 PM

Quote

While Orwell correctly predicted that technological advances would let authorities track our lives, he failed to predict the inverse: That we would use these new technologies to keep an eye on them, too.

:lol:

Isn't that the reason why Snowden and Assange among many others are in trouble ? Or in jail ? Or ... :o dead ?



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Edited by third_eye, 11 July 2013 - 01:36 PM.

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#95    preacherman76

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 10:34 PM

0bama has litteraly become the watch dog of corruption going after more people who tryed to do the right thing then all other presidents combined.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#96    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 10:55 PM

View PostHilander, on 09 July 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

One day you'll be watching TV and they'll be watching you back.

I always wondered about webcams...  Freaky.

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#97    bLu3 de 3n3rgy

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 12:39 AM

View Postjoc, on 11 July 2013 - 03:48 AM, said:

The IRS knows where you live...where you work...and now they will know about your Medical History.

But their is much more to the story: In 1984, you couldn't really trust anyone...ANYONE...even those you thought you could trust, you couldn't...and so, people turned a deaf, 'whatever' ear to everything.  Completely believed whatever anyone said...todays newspapers headlines were the exact opposite of yesterdays...didn't matter...the truth is of the moment.

In North East Texas we have watering restrictions.  If you water on the wrong day...someone will turn you in to the authorities...I kid you not!
It's like living in the Twilight Zone...people will call the authorities and tell on you for 'inappropriate watering behaviour'.
We are a spinning top which has lost it's centrifical force...it is only a matter of time until it all skids across the floor and crashes into the wall.
Hope to god you have some food somewhere to eat for a couple of months...or years.

This is the only post that touches on the fact that there are gov agendas put out there to encourage people to self moderate not only themselves but their neighbours for all manner of things. That is the distinction in my mind of where it goes to far and more into the realms of well, aren't people just being programmed to spy on their neighbours for small incentives and monetary awards, and when that happens it is completely going against the concept of living in a community.

Where i live, you get into trouble and fined for not putting plastic in the correct coloured bin, from the household waste bin which also a has colour, or the paper bin which has a special colour too.  If a hotline exists so that my neighbours feel they can look in my garbage bins to see if i am stacking my garbage correctly and call it to inform, then you know things have gone to far.

More importantly so, why do people fall for it ? because those who continuously push these things increment by increment in the theme of trust no one but your government,  know that giving people the sense of power in ittle doses is highly addictive and awarding, it's sad to see, but until people themselves as a collective stop falling for the sense of power tricks, then this will be our downfall. As per usual it rests with our own faults and naiveties being used against us.

Edited by bLu3 de 3n3rgy, 12 July 2013 - 12:42 AM.

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#98    No Censorship

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 02:17 AM

View PostThe Silver Thong, on 11 July 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

Im amazed half the vids from cop cams make it to public viewing when the cop is commiting the crime. If it wasn`t for cell cams cops since the dawn of the badge would still be commiting terrible crimes against the people. Good cops do exist but they are becoming rare.  Most victims of crime will not call the police and just deal with it. Wonder why.

It depends on the jurisdiction. Police work attracts a certain kind of person, but some of those people are heroes, who truly want to protect and serve the public. Sadly, there are bad apples in every barrel. More of them are getting caught with the methods you mention. Maybe that's why it seems like there are more rogues now. On the other hand, there really does seem to be a change in some police forces. There's a worsening in the attitudes and demeanors of some officers, and the militarization is troublesome and worrying. Some cops are like stormtroopers, with all the government "toys" that come with that.

Edited by Detective Mystery 2013, 12 July 2013 - 02:24 AM.

There is one reality with billions of versions.

#99    No Censorship

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 02:20 AM

View PostLikely Guy, on 11 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

They wouldn't waste the gas flying over my town.

I think that 'reality' lies somewhere between my viewpoint and yours.

I don't know. I exist in more than one "reality".

There is one reality with billions of versions.

#100    No Censorship

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 02:22 AM

View Postjoc, on 11 July 2013 - 04:22 AM, said:

Does the Invisible Man have an IP address?   :yes: :gun:

He does. He can hide it with an invisible proxy, though.

There is one reality with billions of versions.

#101    The Silver Thong

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 02:39 AM

View PostbLu3 de 3n3rgy, on 12 July 2013 - 12:39 AM, said:



This is the only post that touches on the fact that there are gov agendas put out there to encourage people to self moderate not only themselves but their neighbours for all manner of things. That is the distinction in my mind of where it goes to far and more into the realms of well, aren't people just being programmed to spy on their neighbours for small incentives and monetary awards, and when that happens it is completely going against the concept of living in a community.

Where i live, you get into trouble and fined for not putting plastic in the correct coloured bin, from the household waste bin which also a has colour, or the paper bin which has a special colour too.  If a hotline exists so that my neighbours feel they can look in my garbage bins to see if i am stacking my garbage correctly and call it to inform, then you know things have gone to far.

More importantly so, why do people fall for it ? because those who continuously push these things increment by increment in the theme of trust no one but your government,  know that giving people the sense of power in ittle doses is highly addictive and awarding, it's sad to see, but until people themselves as a collective stop falling for the sense of power tricks, then this will be our downfall. As per usual it rests with our own faults and naiveties being used against us.


Not to go all godwin or what ever but thats how Hitler started, with the people of Germani. Spy on thy neighbor.

Edited by The Silver Thong, 12 July 2013 - 02:39 AM.

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#102    joc

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 04:04 AM

View PostbLu3 de 3n3rgy, on 12 July 2013 - 12:39 AM, said:

This is the only post that touches on the fact that there are gov agendas put out there to encourage people to self moderate not only themselves but their neighbours for all manner of things. That is the distinction in my mind of where it goes to far and more into the realms of well, aren't people just being programmed to spy on their neighbours for small incentives and monetary awards, and when that happens it is completely going against the concept of living in a community.

Where i live, you get into trouble and fined for not putting plastic in the correct coloured bin, from the household waste bin which also a has colour, or the paper bin which has a special colour too.  If a hotline exists so that my neighbours feel they can look in my garbage bins to see if i am stacking my garbage correctly and call it to inform, then you know things have gone to far.

More importantly so, why do people fall for it ? because those who continuously push these things increment by increment in the theme of trust no one but your government,  know that giving people the sense of power in ittle doses is highly addictive and awarding, it's sad to see, but until people themselves as a collective stop falling for the sense of power tricks, then this will be our downfall. As per usual it rests with our own faults and naiveties being used against us.
People fall for it because they are obssessed with power...even the little trifle power of snitching on your neighbors trash...and they think they are being 'good' citizens...and everyone wants to be a good citizen right?  Well, except for YOU obviously...trash moron that you are...can't even put the blue trash in the right container...so I have to do it for you...    See...right there..Power...it comes from INcreasing your own Ego potential which comes from DEcreasing someone elses definition...My definition of me is better than my definition of YOU.  Power...you see. Power of Ego over Ego.

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#103    Frank Merton

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 04:28 AM

Why do people enter the professions they enter?  For most of us its pretty much by accident.  I do think though that there are a few professions that tend to attract people we would be better off without.  Lawyers, police and security guards, politicians.


#104    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:29 AM

Little Brother Is Watching You

Quote

But the same technological advances that have empowered the rise of Big Brother have created another wrinkle in the story. We might call it the emergence of Little Brother: the ordinary citizen who by chance finds himself in a position to record events of great public import, and to share the results with the rest of us. This has become immeasurably easier and more likely with the near-ubiquitous proliferation of high-quality recording devices. (As I learned after publishing this, the term had been coined earlier, and Cory Doctorow used it in 2007 for his book of the same name.)

The era of Little Brother was perhaps inaugurated in November, 1963, with the Kodachrome II 8-mm. film of John F. Kennedy’s assassination inadvertently captured by the Dallas clothing manufacturer Abraham Zapruder. George Holliday’s videotape of the March, 1991, beating of Rodney King in Los Angeles, and Scott Prouty’s forty-seven-per-cent video, which arguably cost Mitt Romney the Presidency last year, fall into the same class.

There is a surprisingly rich and dynamic academic literature developing around the concept of “sousveillance,” a term coined by the University of Toronto professor and inventor Steve Mann to describe privately made recordings that can serve as a counterweight to institutional and government surveillance. Mann is famous for approaching these questions from the perspective of wearable computing, a field in which he is one of the earliest pioneers; his apparent eccentricity is belied by the gravity and lucidity of his writing, which is heavily influenced by Foucault’s views on panopticism:

One way to challenge and problematize both surveillance and acquiescence to it is to resituate these technologies of control on individuals, offering panoptic technologies to help them observe those in authority. We call this inverse panopticon “sousveillance” from the French words for “sous” (below) and “veiller” to watch.

Sousveillance is a form of “reflectionism,” a term invented by Mann (1998) for a philosophy and procedures of using technology to mirror and confront bureaucratic organizations. Reflectionism holds up the mirror and asks the question: “Do you like what you see?” If you do not, then you will know that other approaches by which we integrate society and technology must be considered.

*snip*

http://www.newyorker...le-brother.html


#105    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 10:29 AM

I know to some that political correctness is a shibboleth that must not be attacked because they say it is all about being "nice" to others. But this is not so, for being "nice" and good manners are simply that, good manners. Political correctness is the "newspeak" of 1984. If people wish to be boorish and ugly in their use of words, then that is their affair, not that of the state, but political correctness (newspeak), is totalitarian in a way that I am sure Orwell would understand. This "newspeak" combined with the state survailance is as bad, if not worse, than anything conducted by the Stasi, and indicate to me that we certainly are living in 1984, and have been for a long time.





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