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Punishments Of Islam : Stealing


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#1    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 10:37 PM

here is another act in islamic laws that brought rage for the brutality of it
we often heard that stealing punishment in islam is cutting off the person's arm
now again like the previous topic these laws belonged to middle ages
yet they somehow found their way into this day and age a sad truth

it's brutal and harsh punishment by today's standards
and even among muslims this seem to be unjust
what if some one was hungry ? what if some one was in need right ?
well the following explaination should cover all the unexplained points about this punishment

once again there is certain requirements to apply this punishment
and these requirements decide weather a thief should get his hand cut off or not
now what are those requirements ?
first of all the criminal should be caught in act or at least proven 100% to be stealing without doubt
and that done by unbiased court and judges not in some back ally or street by the public


this punishment cannot be applied in following circumstances

1- if some one stole something simple to eat or in dire need
2- in times of poverty and famine


two incidents from history to be noted from the time of second calipha Omar Ibn Al-Kattab

a ) one time a person complained to omar that some guys stole a camel from him
when the guys were brought to omar it turns out they are servant of some rich merchant
and when they were asked why they stole it and to return it their answer was they slaughtered it because
they were hungry and their lord does not pay them or give them food
omar called their lord and told him that if this happens again he would apply stealing punishment on him
instead of the guys .. and the guys were let free unharmed

from this we can tell that stealing to eat cannot be punished same way as stealing just because of greed
or as profession to gather money

b ) another incident was in times of great famine in time of same calipha Omar
he canceled the punishment because the dire need among people
and some people simply were dying unable to get food

so in conclusion when some one found stealing in islam you don't simply take him to the back ally
with angry crowd and cut off his arm
there is court and judges that first job is to determine if he's really guilty
and after that to look at the circumstances that person stole under them
weather he was stealing to feed hungry childrens .. or simply stealing for greed
and punishment can be done only by the court and not carried on by ordinary people
again all opinions are welcome

"why should we not rely on Allah when he guided us our path . we shall certainly bear with patience all the hurt you may cause us. for those who want to put their trust in someone should put their trust in Allah.


#2    GreenmansGod

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 10:49 PM

Like I said clear as mud.

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#3    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 10:54 PM

View PostDarkwind, on 09 July 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

Like I said clear as mud.
what's not so clear ?
perhaps to you they're not .. but to muslims they are
they are not clear to you because you had no previous knowledge of these informations
you and other simply hear " islam cut off hand of thief " and that basically conclude your knowledge of the topic
however our knowledge extend more .. we know requirements need for such punishment
we know in which cases that punishement should not be applied and who can and cannot do it

is it as clear as mud ? basically after you read this topic you simply know everything about this punishment
i don't think it can be any clearer

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#4    DeWitz

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:02 PM

I think it's a question of who makes the decisions, who appoints judges, who decides the penalties, whose exegesis (interpretation of the Qu'ran) is honored and why, and probably a whole host of other issues I haven't thought about in the past 30 seconds. If your description above is intended as an objective description of mutilation as punishment in the contemporary Islamic world, it doesn't square with the reality of differing interpretations within the Islamic world, and routine butchery between competing/opposing Muslim factions (Sunni/Shiite, Alawite, Sufi, etc.) that cannot be blamed on Israel or 'The Great Satan.'

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#5    GreenmansGod

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:04 PM

Quote

once again there is certain requirements to apply this punishment
and these requirements decide weather a thief should get his hand cut off or not
now what are those requirements ?
first of all the criminal should be caught in act or at least proven 100% to be stealing without doubt
and that done by unbiased court and judges not in some back ally or street by the public


You don't understand, as long as the law is there and that is the punishment for it, somebody is going to use it. As long as it is held up and sacred text giving by God, then it is the law. Until you dump the book you're stuck with it.

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#6    Timonthy

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 12:42 AM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 09 July 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

first of all the criminal should be caught in act or at least proven 100% to be stealing without doubt
and that done by unbiased court and judges not in some back ally or street by the public

Good luck with this part...

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#7    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 12:49 AM

View PostDarkwind, on 09 July 2013 - 11:04 PM, said:

You don't understand, as long as the law is there and that is the punishment for it, somebody is going to use it. As long as it is held up and sacred text giving by God, then it is the law. Until you dump the book you're stuck with it.
in your dreams

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#8    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 12:53 AM

View Postszentgyorgy, on 09 July 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

I think it's a question of who makes the decisions, who appoints judges, who decides the penalties, whose exegesis (interpretation of the Qu'ran) is honored and why, and probably a whole host of other issues I haven't thought about in the past 30 seconds. If your description above is intended as an objective description of mutilation as punishment in the contemporary Islamic world, it doesn't square with the reality of differing interpretations within the Islamic world, and routine butchery between competing/opposing Muslim factions (Sunni/Shiite, Alawite, Sufi, etc.) that cannot be blamed on Israel or 'The Great Satan.'
first part of your reply is actually very important
and it's the reason why so many laws are misused
and there lies the problem .. there is no longer people that are impartial and able rule
with both logic and laws combined and still manage to be fair such as the examples i gave

as for the second part it's not related to the topic ..
and it's much more deeper topic to be discussed in simple topic such as this one

"why should we not rely on Allah when he guided us our path . we shall certainly bear with patience all the hurt you may cause us. for those who want to put their trust in someone should put their trust in Allah.


#9    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 12:54 AM

View PostTimonthy, on 10 July 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

Good luck with this part...
as sarcastic as it is .. as real as it is unfortuantly
yes it seems impossible these days

Edited by Knight Of Shadows, 10 July 2013 - 12:55 AM.

"why should we not rely on Allah when he guided us our path . we shall certainly bear with patience all the hurt you may cause us. for those who want to put their trust in someone should put their trust in Allah.


#10    d e v i c e

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 01:08 AM

It's this sort of thing that makes people think Islam is a religion which promotes violence. Of course you can reference all sorts of passages from the Koran which will promote peace and love etc, but that's all undone when you cut off someones hand for stealing. All you are saying is that they need to weigh everything up first, before they decide whether or not to cut off someones hand.




#11    Timonthy

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 02:01 AM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 10 July 2013 - 12:54 AM, said:


as sarcastic as it is .. as real as it is unfortuantly
yes it seems impossible these days
I think all it would take would be an eye witness from a more highly respected person than the accused for a guilty verdict. He said/she said with no hard evidence would probably do it.

Hello justice. Goodbye hand. :/

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#12    DeWitz

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 02:29 AM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 10 July 2013 - 12:53 AM, said:

first part of your reply is actually very important
and it's the reason why so many laws are misused
and there lies the problem .. there is no longer people that are impartial and able rule
with both logic and laws combined and still manage to be fair such as the examples i gave

as for the second part it's not related to the topic ..
and it's much more deeper topic to be discussed in simple topic such as this one

It appears to me that they are directly related, on a simple level: The subjective, and therefore wildly varying, interpretations of the Qu'ran.

Where, in the Qu'ran, does it tell believers to kill one another in the name of a variant interpretation of Allah?

Edited by szentgyorgy, 10 July 2013 - 02:31 AM.

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#13    GreenmansGod

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:39 AM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 10 July 2013 - 12:49 AM, said:

in your dreams

There is a whole world out there of ideas and philosophies, some are good, some not so good. Why limit yourself to one out of date "sacred" text.  Well that is your nightmare, You will be happy I have spoke my peace, for now, time to move on.

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#14    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 11:16 AM

View Postszentgyorgy, on 10 July 2013 - 02:29 AM, said:

It appears to me that they are directly related, on a simple level: The subjective, and therefore wildly varying, interpretations of the Qu'ran.

Where, in the Qu'ran, does it tell believers to kill one another in the name of a variant interpretation of Allah?
nope but if people followed Quran and Hadith direclty there will be only one sect of islam " Sunnis " not as many
it's deep topic and most of the other sects roots does not come from islam
they did not drop their previous belief before coming into islam
instead they merged their previous believes into islam which resulted this

"why should we not rely on Allah when he guided us our path . we shall certainly bear with patience all the hurt you may cause us. for those who want to put their trust in someone should put their trust in Allah.


#15    Zaphod222

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 11:59 AM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 09 July 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

so in conclusion when some one found stealing in islam you don't simply take him to the back ally
with angry crowd and cut off his arm
there is court and judges that first job is to determine if he's really guilty

Let me get this right: You are using this forum to defend Shariah law?!

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