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americans with their hand out


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#16    MiskatonicGrad

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 11:36 PM

View PostKowalski, on 10 July 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:


"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what can you do for your country."
---- John F Kennedy
the last democratic president I respected and where did that kind of thinking get him. I'm not a big conspiracy person but it does make you wonder.

"Were we directed from Washington when to sow, and when to reap, we should soon want bread" --Thomas Jefferson(1821)

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session"--Mark Twain(1866)

"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." --Thomas Jefferson(1800)

#17    danielost

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 11:40 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 10 July 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:



If somebody has food beyond his means he will turn to criminality... and that is way more expensive than food stamps or pay decent wages for all.

If you are socially uncaring you wind up being uncaring towards your pocket book.

And if you stand around with your hand out.  You could end up with nothing.

But, one good thing when medicare runs out of money, the children will have to take care of their parents instead of sticking tyem in a nurseng home.  Neatly wrapped up, putd on a shelf and forgotten.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#18    danielost

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 11:42 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 10 July 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:



If people work 8 hours a day and still need food stamps we surely have a problem. And that applies to most of those 100 million.

Yes, we do.  Taxes are to high.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#19    Purifier

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:06 AM

View PostKowalski, on 10 July 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

The economy sucks right now, and jobs are scarce. Obamacare will make things worse, because a lot of companies will fire people people to get under the 50 person mandate. I think that's why a lot of people are on assistance....Then you have the freeloaders of course,  and that would change if the government would crack down on the people who are abusing the system.


Bingo! Also, there are over 320 million people in the U.S. now. With that many people here, there are some bound to be on assistance regardless of the economic situation. The usual disability recipients spring to mind.

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#20    danielost

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:28 AM

Status update, obamacares business mandate has been held back to 2015. Right after midturn elections. wnty six states have said no to increasing medicare program.  Medicare to be reduced to medicaid benefits.  Walmart fired their door greaters, in waco anyways.  Individuel mandate still in effect for 2014.  This means businesses don't have to buy health insurence next year but you do.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#21    Purifier

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:48 AM

View Postdanielost, on 11 July 2013 - 12:28 AM, said:

Status update, obamacares business mandate has been held back to 2015. Right after midturn elections. wnty six states have said no to increasing medicare program.  Medicare to be reduced to medicaid benefits.  Walmart fired their door greaters, in waco anyways.  Individuel mandate still in effect for 2014.  This means businesses don't have to buy health insurence next year but you do.


Bet'cha 10 to 1 some people will find a loophole around that.

Study the past, if you would divine the future.
- Confucius

#22    DeWitz

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 01:12 AM

So far there have been several sweeping generalizations on this thread, a few details (1/3 of the US population on the dole; Walmart firing door greeters) and lots of veiled assumptions. I don't want to add to that mix, especially since I have lived and worked most of my life with so-called poor people (in US cities, Mexico and Europe). Hence I have my own set of subjective opinions and attitudes.

What I would like to contribute for consideration are these elements:

1.   A huge shift in the past 20-30 years in American manufacturing. The auto industry (after bail-out) is still vestigial. Detroit is a ghost town. Steel
      factories are vacant. Manufacturing jobs, once the buttress for lower- and middle-class workers, are disappearing.
2.   The virtual evisceration of unions (which previously had helped their unemployed with some financial support).
3.   The erosion of the "middle class" and continuation of a multi-generational underclass--under-educated, untrained, under-socialized (sometimes),    .     undernourished (often).
4.   The "middle class" has lost economic viability (almost as deeply as the underclass) and can't pay for college educations for the young nor good
       at home or elsewhere, for the elderly.
5.   The average college senior faces graduation with a $27,000.00 debt (no frills, no grad school, no med school, etc.). Many 'professional' jobs  
      (teaching, social work, mental health, nursing, ministry) require advanced degrees.
6.   Our (US) trade imbalance. While we consume gimcracks, widgets and other gewgaws from China at Walmart and other "bargain" outposts of fine
      Chinese manufacturing, we produce less and less each year--but we export jobs with vicious and determined efficiency (jobs which could have
      remained here and enriched, rather than impoverished, the economy).
7.   Not only is the 2-party system ineffective, if not broken, but political civility is at an all-time low. Obstruction reigns supreme. Our "leaders" are full o
      of pious and partisan bile at levels unseen since the Civil War.
.
These are some additional factors, by no means a comprehensive list, that suggest our national problems are long-standing, deeply entrenched and resistant to easy analysis or simple solutions.

Edited by szentgyorgy, 11 July 2013 - 01:18 AM.

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#23    rodentraiser

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 03:01 AM

There was a time when one person working a manufacturing job could support his family, buy a house, and send his children to college. When was the last time TWO people working full time could do that?

In 1975, I was working full time as a waitress making less than $2 an hour and tips (and believe me, it was a BIG day when you got a whole dollar for a tip!), yet I could afford an apartment for $125 a month. Today I would have to work full time at $12 an hour and my rent would easily be more than 1/2 my take home salary, probably $600 or more a month for a similar one bedroom place. It took gas from the beginning of the automobile 50 years to go over $.50 a gallon. In the next 40 years it has gone to almost $5 a gallon. This is why people need help.

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I’m sick of voting for the lesser of two evils. The lesser of two evils is still evil. And almost always the lesser of two evils is our only choice.

We have been voting for the lesser of two evils for decade upon decade and look where it’s gotten us.     Coleman Luck


#24    danielost

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 03:13 AM

View PostPurifier, on 11 July 2013 - 12:48 AM, said:




Bet'cha 10 to 1 some people will find a loophole around that.

Fox is betting it too will be put on hold until the election next year.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#25    danielost

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 03:21 AM

Just to add to the list above. A president that side steps congress and uses the constitution as a suggestion instead of law.

Both parties passing bad laws hoping the supreme court will weed them out.

The supreme court finding ways to keep the bad laws.

The supreme court saying the voice of the people isn't important.  As in obamacare and same sex marriage ban in california.  And people thinking that is a good thing.

Edited by danielost, 14 July 2013 - 03:22 AM.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#26    Gummug

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 04:39 AM

View PostMiskatonicGrad, on 10 July 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

the last democratic president I respected and where did that kind of thinking get him. I'm not a big conspiracy person but it does make you wonder.
No good deed is ever unpunished. I guess you don't mess with the PTB (Powers That Be).
eta: for those that missed Miskatonic's post, speaking of JFK.

Edited by Gummug, 14 July 2013 - 04:40 AM.

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#27    Gummug

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 04:46 AM

View Postrodentraiser, on 14 July 2013 - 03:01 AM, said:

There was a time when one person working a manufacturing job could support his family, buy a house, and send his children to college. When was the last time TWO people working full time could do that?

In 1975, I was working full time as a waitress making less than $2 an hour and tips (and believe me, it was a BIG day when you got a whole dollar for a tip!), yet I could afford an apartment for $125 a month. Today I would have to work full time at $12 an hour and my rent would easily be more than 1/2 my take home salary, probably $600 or more a month for a similar one bedroom place. It took gas from the beginning of the automobile 50 years to go over $.50 a gallon. In the next 40 years it has gone to almost $5 a gallon. This is why people need help.
And it's all the fault of the Federal Reserve!

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#28    danielost

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 05:03 AM

View Postrodentraiser, on 14 July 2013 - 03:01 AM, said:

There was a time when one person working a manufacturing job could support his family, buy a house, and send his children to college. When was the last time TWO people working full time could do that?

In 1975, I was working full time as a waitress making less than $2 an hour and tips (and believe me, it was a BIG day when you got a whole dollar for a tip!), yet I could afford an apartment for $125 a month. Today I would have to work full time at $12 an hour and my rent would easily be more than 1/2 my take home salary, probably $600 or more a month for a similar one bedroom place. It took gas from the beginning of the automobile 50 years to go over $.50 a gallon. In the next 40 years it has gone to almost $5 a gallon. This is why people need help.

A lot of this is due taxes.  Even if a company gets to worm out of paying higher taxes, they raise their prices. Then you have the unions with their overpriced wages for their members.

Edited by danielost, 14 July 2013 - 05:05 AM.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#29    acidhead

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 05:19 AM

View Postdanielost, on 14 July 2013 - 05:03 AM, said:

A lot of this is due taxes.  Even if a company gets to worm out of paying higher taxes, they raise their prices. Then you have the unions with their overpriced wages for their members.

Yes and no.  

Everybody needs more money.

The over lying problem is with inflation.  We are not told the true inflation numbers.  The statistics no longer include food or fuel into the calculation....... 2-3 % target range my azzzzzzzz!

"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#30    danielost

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 12:53 PM

Inflation is caused by taxes and wage increase.  That is one thing we haven't hasd to deal with a lot over the last four years.  But, it will hit us hard when it returns, in my opinion

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.




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