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‘Living wage’ bill will nix plans for DC


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#16    FurthurBB

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 02:42 PM

View PostRafterman, on 11 July 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

Because Wal-Mart is viewed by many as a "conservative" company and is headquartered in the South.

Target does pretty much the same thing and they're viewed as a cool, hip retailer.

Not for me.  I will not shop at Target either, although they do not do the pretty much the same thing.  They let people work full-time so they can get benefits and there is no gender gap in pay or promotions to name a couple of differences.  As a corporation they support one too many things I do not agree with.  Even though some are conservative and some are liberal so I would not say they are a conservative company.  I could care less about that really.


#17    questionmark

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:43 PM

in related news:

Washington Post said:

D.C. Council approves ‘living wage’ bill over Wal-Mart ultimatum

D.C. lawmakers gave final approval Wednesday to a bill requiring some large retailers to pay their employees a 50 percent premium over the city’s minimum wage, a day after Wal-Mart warned that the law would jeopardize its plans in the city.

The retail giant had linked the future of at least three planned stores in the District to the proposal. But its ultimatum did not change any legislators’ minds. The 8 to 5 roll call matched the outcome of an earlier vote on the matter, taken before Wal-Mart’s warning.

Read more


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#18    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:30 PM

What Walmart should do is pay them in Wallidollars. Basically, it's an internal scrip that means you can only buy things from Walmart.

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#19    Michelle

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:40 PM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 11 July 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

What Walmart should do is pay them in Wallidollars. Basically, it's an internal scrip that means you can only buy things from Walmart.

I'd be willing to bet a lot of people have never heard of such a thing. It happened a lot in little mining towns where everything was owned by the owners of the mines.


#20    Kowalski

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:46 PM

View PostMichelle, on 11 July 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

I'd be willing to bet a lot of people have never heard of such a thing. It happened a lot in little mining towns where everything was owned by the owners of the mines.

I knew what it was! :)


#21    F3SS

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 10:10 PM

View PostPurifier, on 11 July 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

One of the problems with Wally World is they got too many chiefs in each store amongst the indians. They got the Store Manager, Co-Manager, Assistant Mangers <-(almost a dozen of these per store), Department Managers <-(a little over a dozen of these per store), and floor supervisors in some departments, like TLE when they already have a Department Manager and a Assistant Manager over that.

Lol. I mean...that is a serious overkill of employee management for just one store. It's no wonder they can't afford a raise in minimum wages.


I don't understand their business tactics, for years they removed the middleman when it came to buying things directly from the factory, thus saving themselves a ton of money. Yet, when it comes to employee management, they can't seem to do the same thing, remove the middle management. They don't need all those different types of managers in one store, it's ridiculous.

All they need is a Store Manager, Co-Manager, Night Supervisor and maybe a few supervisors in some areas like TLE because of safety concerns. They would save a ton of money and be able to pay their regular employees a little above the minimum wage.

They really need to get their crap together, when it comes to stuff like that and make the money they earn work more efficiently for them.

I disagree. My first job was a grocery store for about 5 years. Though much smaller than Walmart I absolutely see a need for individual oversight in each department. Front end (registers, baggers) management to assign registers and misc duties, coordinate breaks and shift relief, handle problems at the registers, scheduling. There's a lot to do. A couple dozen people worked just the front end in one medium size store. That requires a lot of oversight. The health and beauty departments are an entirely different thing requiring separate knowledge, routines and scheduling. The produce department has many employees that need the typical oversight and coordination not to mention the knowledge that one absorbs from years of working with one product. Trust me, long time produce guys are adamant about their produce know how. Meat, bakery, deli, hot foods, floral, pharmacy, customer service desk (which responsible for all the cash, register and department monies and accounting for it all) and general grocery departments all have very different things to do, knowledge to be had, vendors to deal with, schedules to write and each had a separate manager, rightfully so. And this is all from what I remember about a relatively small place with around 200 employees compared to walmarts and super walmarts that are far larger, employ far more and have many many more and different departments to coordinate.

Your vision is impossible beyond a doubt and not every department manager was eating into wages. They don't all make a whole lot but some did and those were the ones who were with the chain since the early days. People I worked when I was young who might have made management today, decades after the chain started, aren't making bukoo bucks and I doubt much of Walmart middle management is either.

Edited by F3SS, 11 July 2013 - 10:11 PM.

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#22    Purifier

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 06:11 AM

View PostF3SS, on 11 July 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

I disagree. My first job was a grocery store for about 5 years. Though much smaller than Walmart I absolutely see a need for individual oversight in each department. Front end (registers, baggers) management to assign registers and misc duties, coordinate breaks and shift relief, handle problems at the registers, scheduling. There's a lot to do. A couple dozen people worked just the front end in one medium size store. That requires a lot of oversight. The health and beauty departments are an entirely different thing requiring separate knowledge, routines and scheduling. The produce department has many employees that need the typical oversight and coordination not to mention the knowledge that one absorbs from years of working with one product. Trust me, long time produce guys are adamant about their produce know how. Meat, bakery, deli, hot foods, floral, pharmacy, customer service desk (which responsible for all the cash, register and department monies and accounting for it all) and general grocery departments all have very different things to do, knowledge to be had, vendors to deal with, schedules to write and each had a separate manager, rightfully so. And this is all from what I remember about a relatively small place with around 200 employees compared to walmarts and super walmarts that are far larger, employ far more and have many many more and different departments to coordinate.


Okay then, tell you what. I'll give you at least a lead person/supervisor, but not for each dept, they can supervise at least two departments, if not more. For example; electronics and toys, it doesn't take a genius to help run those two departments. Even an employee has knowledge of the products in both of those departments, just as much as a supervisor would. That's of course, after the employee has been there a while; usually between 3 to 6 months. I know this, specifically, Mr. Fess, because I worked for Wal-Mart once upon-a-time, which you probably figured that out at some point during our previous discussions about Wal-Mart. Furthermore, they don't need another manager, especially two managers, one over the other, as I've seen in other departments, over a department supervisor. It's overkill and frankly a waste of company money. That department lead/supervisor can report directly to the Store Manager and that's all the lower management there should be.

Scheduling, payroll and training are handled by a in store Human Resources Specialist, which they do with the help of a computers and computer programs, who also handle most of the employee Health Benefits. You don't see these guys, actually I've only seen one for each store, because they sit in a office all day in the back working on the computer assigning new employees to training computers. They type in the schedules with lunch times with the same times for each employee every week, unless a Assistant Manger tells them to change a employee's schedule otherwise, and employees are responsible for their own break times; at least it was that way when I worked there.

As far as monies handling goes, mostly the Store Manager, who sits in another office, along with the Assistant Managers sometimes, handles most of that along with the visit from the vendors. Specifically Wells Fargo. They do have a floor lead (forgot what they use to call them now) who stands at a podium all day assisting with change and cash register assignments for the checkout lanes. They could just as well have him/her do the same for the customer department, which I think they do now in some stores.

BTW, I started out in Produce. Every employee including the department manager sometimes new more about the produce than the Assistant Manager did, that was probably because the Assistant Manager never worked in produce. There again is another example, where one lead person could supervise the produce department, deli department and the meat department. I say this because I had to work in all three at times, even though I was assigned only to the produce department. Didn't know anything at first about the other two departments, but I learned quickly and managed pretty well. And I know I could've run all three departments, with the help of a few more employees of course; felt like I was sometimes because of the high employee turnover we had at one point.

Wal-mart follows a para-military chain of command, while that's fine to a certain degree, there are too many middlemen they don't need. Waste of money, waste of training expenses because they send "would be" Assistant Managers to a school for several weeks, which Wal-Mart owns and operates. Don't need all that, the money would be better used for paying for other needs and the regular employees more who do most of the work anyway.

View PostF3SS, on 11 July 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

Your vision is impossible beyond a doubt and not every department manager was eating into wages.

It's not impossible, Mr. Fess...it can be done, as noted above. My experience as an employee at Wal-Mart and a Manager on another job showed me that I could do scheduling, payroll, assignments and even training when I needed to, with the help of one supervisor under me; which I had at that time with that particular job.

View PostF3SS, on 11 July 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

They don't all make a whole lot but some did and those were the ones who were with the chain since the early days. People I worked when I was young who might have made management today, decades after the chain started, aren't making bukoo bucks and I doubt much of Walmart middle management is either.

Even if middle management aren't making bukoos of money today, the expense all adds up with too many managers than what is needed in one store. Again...it's ridiculous and the money they pay for those unneeded middle management, specifically the Assistant Managers, not to mention those type of managers get sale bonuses and extra company stock as well, so there not doing too bad, could go to paying the employees a little more and help them from getting on food stamp assistance.

It just makes good business sense, Mr. Fess. Why waste money like that, money wise it's unefficient.

Edited by Purifier, 12 July 2013 - 06:16 AM.

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#23    Purplos

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 02:05 PM

So they could employ  2 people at lower wages, or just 1 person at a slightly higher wage.

If I were that 2nd person, I'd rather have a job.


I haven't followed this story yet, or researched Walmart's financial situation, but it seems to me that being able to force a company to pay more than the legal minimum wage totally defeats the purpose of a legal minimum wage.

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#24    Frank Merton

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 02:21 PM

Constructive destruction of the retail industry is already underway by the Internet.


#25    Jeremiah65

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 02:26 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 12 July 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

Constructive destruction of the retail industry is already underway by the Internet.

Very good point.

As the internet retail market grew into power from cheap shipping and no taxes...it caused a "cleaning of the stables" so to speak.  Now that legislation is in the works to put sales tax on internet transactions...I see the "physical store locations" soon making a comeback.

Or maybe not...

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#26    Merc14

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 03:05 PM

Living wage is lieral bunk at it worst.  They don't understand basic economics and then proceed to destroy jobs while supposedly fixing a problem.  Raise wages, less people will work. Period.  the fact is a cashier's job at Wal-Mart is not supposed to provide for a family of four, it is a supplemental income at best.

The second part of this is the democrats HATE Wal-Mart because Wal-Mart refuses to allow unions, a huge source of income for the democrats.  They have been at war with Wal-Mart for years and will never stop.

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#27    Jeremiah65

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 04:06 PM

As I said earlier, it is all about choices and the freedom to make those choices.

If a person does not feel they are being paid well enough, they can choose to do something about it.

If a consumer does not like the policy or philosophy of an establishment, they are free to choose to take their money somewhere else.

We like to make excuses though...

"Wal Mart is the only store around and the prices are so cheap some folks can't afford to shop elsewhere"...bunk...

There are always other stores to get your needs from.  In fact, choosing to patronize them will insure their continual existence.  Yes, you might spend a few cents...maybe even a dollar more for something...but it is...a choice you "can" make...you simply choose not to do that....and find easy excuses for it.

"Wal Mart is the only place I can get a job"...again...bunk

It was prob the easiest and most convenient...or the first one to respond to your job application.  Another excuse for the choices made.

Wal Mart is not responsible for the choices you make...you are.  Yes, they might have tilted the table to their favor in some locations...but that still does not free you of the responsibility for your own decisions.

All that being said...I hate Wal Mart...I  really try to avoid that place...and generally do avoid it.  Yep...I might spend $0.19 per item more and at the end of the shopping have either spent 5 to 10 bucks more...or maybe my shopping cart is light a handful of items...but I can live with that to avoid the madness of interacting with the general public "MARTians" that patronize Wally World...see?...a choice.

Learn to vote and have a voice with your hard earned money....it is the only thing that business or this government listen to.  It has more power than you think.

ETA:

Reminds me of the South park Episode about Wal Mart.  The whole town was mad cause "Wally World" was destroying their small businesses so they all swore to boycott it...yet they all kept finding excuses to keep working and shopping there...if you have never watched that episode...it's hysterical actually...and so spot on to the mindset of consumers in general.


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Edited by Jeremiah65, 12 July 2013 - 04:40 PM.

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#28    F3SS

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 09:31 PM

View PostPurifier, on 12 July 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:




Okay then, tell you what. I'll give you at least a lead person/supervisor, but not for each dept, they can supervise at least two departments, if not more. For example; electronics and toys, it doesn't take a genius to help run those two departments. Even an employee has knowledge of the products in both of those departments, just as much as a supervisor would. That's of course, after the employee has been there a while; usually between 3 to 6 months. I know this, specifically, Mr. Fess, because I worked for Wal-Mart once upon-a-time, which you probably figured that out at some point during our previous discussions about Wal-Mart. Furthermore, they don't need another manager, especially two managers, one over the other, as I've seen in other departments, over a department supervisor. It's overkill and frankly a waste of company money. That department lead/supervisor can report directly to the Store Manager and that's all the lower management there should be.

Scheduling, payroll and training are handled by a in store Human Resources Specialist, which they do with the help of a computers and computer programs, who also handle most of the employee Health Benefits. You don't see these guys, actually I've only seen one for each store, because they sit in a office all day in the back working on the computer assigning new employees to training computers. They type in the schedules with lunch times with the same times for each employee every week, unless a Assistant Manger tells them to change a employee's schedule otherwise, and employees are responsible for their own break times; at least it was that way when I worked there.

As far as monies handling goes, mostly the Store Manager, who sits in another office, along with the Assistant Managers sometimes, handles most of that along with the visit from the vendors. Specifically Wells Fargo. They do have a floor lead (forgot what they use to call them now) who stands at a podium all day assisting with change and cash register assignments for the checkout lanes. They could just as well have him/her do the same for the customer department, which I think they do now in some stores.

BTW, I started out in Produce. Every employee including the department manager sometimes new more about the produce than the Assistant Manager did, that was probably because the Assistant Manager never worked in produce. There again is another example, where one lead person could supervise the produce department, deli department and the meat department. I say this because I had to work in all three at times, even though I was assigned only to the produce department. Didn't know anything at first about the other two departments, but I learned quickly and managed pretty well. And I know I could've run all three departments, with the help of a few more employees of course; felt like I was sometimes because of the high employee turnover we had at one point.

Wal-mart follows a para-military chain of command, while that's fine to a certain degree, there are too many middlemen they don't need. Waste of money, waste of training expenses because they send "would be" Assistant Managers to a school for several weeks, which Wal-Mart owns and operates. Don't need all that, the money would be better used for paying for other needs and the regular employees more who do most of the work anyway.



It's not impossible, Mr. Fess...it can be done, as noted above. My experience as an employee at Wal-Mart and a Manager on another job showed me that I could do scheduling, payroll, assignments and even training when I needed to, with the help of one supervisor under me; which I had at that time with that particular job.



Even if middle management aren't making bukoos of money today, the expense all adds up with too many managers than what is needed in one store. Again...it's ridiculous and the money they pay for those unneeded middle management, specifically the Assistant Managers, not to mention those type of managers get sale bonuses and extra company stock as well, so there not doing too bad, could go to paying the employees a little more and help them from getting on food stamp assistance.

It just makes good business sense, Mr. Fess. Why waste money like that, money wise it's unefficient.

We can go back and forth about this. You sound like a great employee but you also sound like you think you're know it all super employee.

Scheduling/payroll... Isn't as easy as hitting print on a standard schedule. You've got to consider shift/time off requests, call offs, vacations, holiday reconfiguration of schedules to account for busier times and many other things when you've got dozens or hundreds of employees. Employees responsible for their own break times?! Crazy. There has to be structure and control or you have cliques going on break together at the same time all the time and people just leaving registers at random times or all at once. Order is a must.

Store managers have other things to deal with that I'm sure you and I don't know of. There is usually one and they can't be there 24 hours a day. But whatever. Human resources is there to handle payroll, employee issues, accounting perhaps. But whatever again. This all plays into the bigger theme of this conversation.

I never said all middle management is great but there are those who take their job seriously and really do make the department a more efficient one. Working in three departments is not the same as managing three departments. Seriously superman, I'd like to see you try.

Skip to your last sentence... Do you really think Walmart would be doing things inefficiently? They aren't the worlds largest employer for nothing and it's kind of funny of you to think they haphazardly use a business model designed to waste money. They are the most successful retail business ever. I think they know a thing or two about money management.

Don't take my jabs at you personal. They're lighthearted.

Edited by F3SS, 12 July 2013 - 09:32 PM.

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#29    Purifier

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 04:09 AM

View PostF3SS, on 12 July 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

We can go back and forth about this. You sound like a great employee but you also sound like you think you're know it all super employee.

Scheduling/payroll... Isn't as easy as hitting print on a standard schedule. You've got to consider shift/time off requests, call offs, vacations, holiday reconfiguration of schedules to account for busier times and many other things when you've got dozens or hundreds of employees. Employees responsible for their own break times?! Crazy. There has to be structure and control or you have cliques going on break together at the same time all the time and people just leaving registers at random times or all at once. Order is a must.

Store managers have other things to deal with that I'm sure you and I don't know of. There is usually one and they can't be there 24 hours a day. But whatever. Human resources is there to handle payroll, employee issues, accounting perhaps. But whatever again. This all plays into the bigger theme of this conversation.

I never said all middle management is great but there are those who take their job seriously and really do make the department a more efficient one. Working in three departments is not the same as managing three departments. Seriously superman, I'd like to see you try.

Skip to your last sentence... Do you really think Walmart would be doing things inefficiently? They aren't the worlds largest employer for nothing and it's kind of funny of you to think they haphazardly use a business model designed to waste money. They are the most successful retail business ever. I think they know a thing or two about money management.

Don't take my jabs at you personal. They're lighthearted.




Hey thanks for the compliments, Mr. Fess. Means a lot to me, really does! And your right...I mean about the going back an forth bit.  :P

But you know what, after reading Jeremiah's post above (post 27), I'm total convinced that he's right overall (btw, damn good post Jeremiah ;)). So what we were talking about doesn't much matter to me anymore. Because after all, like Jeremiah said I have the power to vote with my money. Money talks and everything else walks.


BTW, I'm not a (super) employee for old Wally World anymore, left on good terms, and well...not for anybody else either as a matter of fact. I'm a small time operator now, I run a local business in my area. Haven't hit the big time yet, but it pays the bills.

Anyway, Wal-Mart can do what they like. It's up to the customers and employees to do what they need to do for their own self and take command of their problems with Wal-Mart. Action speaks louder than words and words are useless anyway. So I think I'm gonna go to my new chosen store, definitely not Wal - Fart, and shop with my latest earned dollar. :devil:

Later, Mr. Fess........

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#30    Frank Merton

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 04:19 AM

What is it they say, "You get what you pay for."





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