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the book of mormon empires.


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#31    danielost

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 12:04 AM

The indian curse included their land being occupied.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
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#32    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 12:28 AM

View Postdanielost, on 13 July 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

if you mean having babies when one parent is white and one has dark skin making a baby with darkskin.  I don't have to believe it.  I also know of one case in which a full blooded indian was born with white skin.  Perhaps the skin color is faiding.

No daniel the skin color is not fading... Its to do with the skin pigment...  A white couple for example, can in fact give birth to a black child and some have done.

The persons skin color is influenced by 12 disclaimer genes, which together control the quantity of the pigment produced in the skin...

Read this .....

Tuesday, The Sun ran a story about two black parents who gave birth to a white baby, the story shows video and photos of the parents and baby. The baby is white with blond hair and the parents are both black, they said that don't believe there were any white family members in their history. Both the mother and father are shocked by the blond haired baby news and just stared at her when they first saw her.
Dad Ben, 44, said: "We both just sat there after the birth staring at her." He said that he knows the baby is his, but he said, “Is she mine?” He added: "Actually, the first thing I did was look at her and say, 'What the flip?'"
Mom Angela, 35, said: "She's beautiful - a miracle baby."

Professor Bryan Sykes from Oxford University said this about a white baby being born to a black couple:
All skin and eye colour are controlled by the pigment melanin. And there are about a dozen genes that control the amount or type of melanin. Even if there have been convergence of a pale version of the parents’ genes, there would have to be some form of white ancestry on both sides for this baby to look this way. It is more likely that there has been some other mutation that’s happened to produce this colouring.”  http://www.examiner....otos-video-link

The baby can still have his / her parents features, the only difference would be the skin and hair color...

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 13 July 2013 - 12:28 AM.

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#33    chopmo

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 12:31 AM

View Postdanielost, on 12 July 2013 - 12:54 AM, said:

You didn't provide any links.  Besides when did dark skin mean only black.  And the bible talks about god putting a mark on cain so no one seeing him would kill him.  Further, the story of noah goes out of its way to tell us that one of noahs sons was married to a caininite.  No where in any scriptures has there ever been genicide.  The flood came the closest to do so.

As for the curse of marrying someone with dark skin.  Have you ever seen a mexican.  

Dark skinned people.  Indians, south africa below the desert, some arabs, asains, obariganies(we class them as cuacasins, and the pacific islanders.

Eeew, you are just the biggest type of retard a racist, ill-knowledge, arrogant pig.

1) Indians, are considering of a "tanned" colour and would even go as far saying they are black but have never been derived of western slavery so no racist coin was popularised untill Tele-Marketing, in saying that American Indians are only called Indians because Columbus thought he stumbled upon the Dutch-India trading routes and thought he would take his own piece of the pie.

2) South African caucasions are not Aboriginal to the land, Dido of Catheridge is one of the founders South African in my view and a Mix of the established Dutch-India Traders.

3) Arabian/Muslim/Middle Eastern are "Ethnic" as a view from the west because of their facial characteristics. That's right fruit loops Jesus was brown get a grip on yourself.

4) Pacific Islanders are once again tanned and classed as "Pacific Islanders" or just "Islanders" depending on where you are from because of their body/facial features.

5) Asian, for most of the time media/the west has classed them actually as "Yellow" but would still be considered tanned but that would be the closest of caucasion you have claimed out of your list which just proves your arrogance as the typical "by the book, I'll follow political agenda to the punctuation" style of flapping gums that America has been breatfed on.


Notice because of the bible or whatever mindset it initially was derived of, tanned societies have been seen as a saving grace... their last hope before they are seen as black, dirty, slave, something wrong. In my opinion it is that is why stolen slave races are mojorily black not tanned. Even egyptian slavoury has even gone to the lengths of having slaves painted in a darker colour most of the time well in my viewing and understanding. This is what really annoys me when it comes to evolution and history, all I see is mistaken ideas and greed to divide and conquer. Untill I see elephants having State/Country/Continent-wide turf wars I will constantly see it as that.

I see it for how I see it, Birthplace of mankind was african(proven), 4 groups broke off. 1 stayed in africa (proven), 1 travelled to syberia(proven), the other 3 in my opinion started the middle eastern, the islander and asain coloneys the rest is genetics and interbreeding. We are a product of our own choices, even if that is the first decision ever made.

why is everyone so &^%$ing concerned with "the end"...
new beginnings is what you should be concerned about...

#34    JMPD1

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 12:35 AM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 12 July 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

I would never insult my own brother and sister that way over appearance..I wouldn't get away with it if I tried...

I am sorry daniel, but reading that alone is just so unbelievable.. I cannot get my head around why anyone would take part and follow it, if it says their skin tone/color is a curse.. Where I come from that is plain rude, and many would call it racist.....I had no idea that mormons believed this..

Native Indians are cursed?   I really cannot get it... These people were in America before the white man, and many years later some white man makes up his own religion, and calls them people cursed...I could never look at other races of people and think of them as cursed..

How can I "super" like a post?

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#35    JMPD1

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 12:39 AM

See now, being the progeny of both Irish & English blood, I see myself more of a pinkish-reddish-tannish color than "white".  In point of fact, the only true "whites" on the planet are those suffering from albinism.  Which, I believe, is classed as a recessive genetic trait.













editted for typographical errors.  Note to self:  slow down when typing.

Edited by JMPD1, 13 July 2013 - 12:41 AM.

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#36    DeWitz

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 12:42 AM

View PostDark_Grey, on 11 July 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

I thought someone might claim it was simply shoddy interpretation.
To further prove that it was actually meant to condemn people of color, I refer to the religious leaders of the Mormon faith:

Brigham Young, second President and Prophet:

"You see, some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. . . . Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which was the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another cursed is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the "servants of servants;" and they will be until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree (Journal of Discourses,  7:290)
Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be." (ibid., 10:110)

Wilford Woodruff, fourth President and Prophet:

"What was that mark? It was a mark of blackness. That mark rested upon Cain, and descended upon his posterity from that time until the present. To day there are millions of the descendants of Cain, through the lineage of Ham, in the world, and that mark of darkness still rest upon them." (Millennial Star, 51:339; emphasis added).


In 1963, Look magazine interviewed, at that time, the leader of the LDS Church; Joseph Fielding Smith. Concerning negroes, Smith stated:

I would not want you to believe that we bear any animosity toward the Negro. 'Darkies' are wonderful people, and they have their place in our church (Look magazine, October 22, 1963, 79).

Smith also taught that "Negroes" were inferior to other races:

"Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race. A curse was place upon him and that curse has been continued through his lineage and must do so while time endures. Millions of souls have come into this world cursed with black skin and have been denied the privilege of Priesthood and the fullness of the blessings of the Gospel. These are the descendants of Cain. Moreover, they have been made to feel their inferiority and have been separated from the rest of mankind from the beginning… we will also hope that blessings may eventually be given to our Negro brethren, for they are our brethren--children of God---notwithstanding their black covering emblematical of eternal darkness."(The Way to Perfection, 101-02).

There you go. Right from the "horses mouth".

There are actually a surprising number of quotes from LDS presidents and other LDS authorities that confirm their "distaste" for people of color. I am not trying to imply this is the current thinking of the church! I am merely providing evidence that the discriminatory passages in the BoM were meant to be just that.

Oh, and one more quote from the tenth president J. F. Smith;

"There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages...the Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits." (Doctrines of Salvation, 1:61, 66).




Edited -- ridiculous amount of formatting

Not your 'shoddy interpretation, but theirs. Well done.

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#37    DeWitz

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 12:51 AM

View Postdanielost, on 12 July 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

Not scrolls a book.

Actually, gold plates. Which no one ever saw again, except for the so-called "witnesses." One can read their perjury statement in the introduction of any copy of The Book of Mormon. Rafterman, did you steal those plates? I'd like a cut, -Man.

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#38    DeWitz

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 12:53 AM

View PostJMPD1, on 13 July 2013 - 12:39 AM, said:

See now, being the progeny of both Irish & English blood, I see myself more of a pinkish-reddish-tannish color than "white".  In point of fact, the only true "whites" on the planet are those suffering from albinism.  Which, I believe, is classed as a recessive genetic trait.


I'm a pink, sunburned guy of English, Welsh, German and Canadian extraction, who speaks fluent Spanish. Does this make me a Mixican?












editted for typographical errors.  Note to self:  slow down when typing.


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#39    danielost

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 01:14 AM

Shopmo according to science everyone with dark skinned are classed as tan people.  But, tell something why is there ony ine white skinned group of people.  And no it doesn't have to do with the amount of sun you get.  The reason I say this is because the chinese live at th sam latitude as europeans do, and excamos live a lot higher up.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#40    danielost

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 01:20 AM

Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race. A curse was place upon him and that curse has been continued through his lineage and must do so while time endures. Millions of souls have come into this world cursed with black skin and have been denied the privilege of Priesthood and the fullness of the blessings of the Gospel. These are the descendants of Cain. Moreover, they have been made to feel their inferiority and have been separated from the rest of mankind from the beginning… we will also hope that blessings may eventually be given to our Negro brethren, for they are our brethren--children of God---notwithstanding their black covering emblematical of eternal darkness."(The Way to Perfection, 101-02).[




That says it all right there.  Pay close attention to the last few sentences,.  Where he says they are our brothers and sisters, and he hoped they would be allowed to share in the blessings with the other members.  

Thanks for the post.

Edited by danielost, 13 July 2013 - 01:27 AM.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#41    JMPD1

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 01:22 AM

Excuse me Danie-o, is that the same science that you claim is all guesswork?

I guess it is beyond hope that you can back up any of the dren you just wrote, or are you just pulling these "facts" from your bung hole?

Edited by JMPD1, 13 July 2013 - 01:22 AM.

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#42    Likely Guy

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 01:30 AM

View Postdanielost, on 13 July 2013 - 01:20 AM, said:

Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race. A curse was place upon him and that curse has been continued through his lineage and must do so while time endures. Millions of souls have come into this world cursed with black skin and have been denied the privilege of Priesthood and the fullness of the blessings of the Gospel. These are the descendants of Cain. Moreover, they have been made to feel their inferiority and have been separated from the rest of mankind from the beginning… we will also hope that blessings may eventually be given to our Negro brethren, for they are our brethren--children of God---notwithstanding their black covering emblematical of eternal darkness."(The Way to Perfection, 101-02).[

That says it all right there.

What, that this 200 year old religion was born out of a certain amount of racism? If so, you've convinced me, completely.

Edited by Likely Guy, 13 July 2013 - 01:35 AM.


#43    danielost

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 01:35 AM

View PostJMPD1, on 13 July 2013 - 01:22 AM, said:

Excuse me Danie-o, is that the same science that you claim is all guesswork?

I guess it is beyond hope that you can back up any of the dren you just wrote, or are you just pulling these "facts" from your bung hole?

I used science against you.  That doesn't mean I believe it.  You was the one who brought up tanned people.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#44    danielost

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 01:37 AM

View PostLikely Guy, on 13 July 2013 - 01:30 AM, said:



What, that this 200 year old religion was born out of a certain amount of racism? If so, you've convinced me, completely.


The mormons are on the receiving end of bigots.  Just read this thread.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#45    DeWitz

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 01:40 AM

View Postdanielost, on 13 July 2013 - 12:04 AM, said:

The indian curse included their land being occupied.

That was no curse, that was theft.

[previously incarnate as 'szentgyorgy']

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