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[Merged] Amazing Crop Circle: Hackpen Hill

ufo crop circle

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#331    Oniomancer

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 01:45 AM

View Postzoser, on 14 August 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

To dismiss nearly 40 years of research by typing one sentence into a pc isn't going to impress me one little bit.  I cannot speak for others but I won't accept flat out dismissal of dozens of dedicated researchers who have spent months and years on site, categorising, studying and analysing by those who have never seen one themselves or set foot in one.

It's exactly like someone who hoaxes UFO images claiming that they and friends are responsible for all sightings.

It's just pure crap.

For any opinion on this subject to be taken remotely seriously it would have to explain the following enigmas:

1) Spherical balls and soil anomolies.
2) Microwave damage.
3) Balls of light witnessed before and after crop circle formations.
4) EM radiation effects
5) Creation of circles in very short time frames without trace of human intrusion.

Then we go back to the experts and those who have spent a long time researching the subject.  


When you have looked into the above phenomena and reviewed Rob's work maybe an informed discussion would be possible on this thread.

All we have at the moment is uninformed casual dismissal.   That is arrogant and unscientific.

I will not respond to that; please do not be offended.  I will just refer people back to this post.

In reverse order:

5. As near as I can ascertain, the short time frame claim is based on the best time manageable by one of the aforementioned old duffers, who, being an old duffer, could hardly be expected to move very quickly on foot under the described conditions at the time. Nor did he or his companion appear to have access to night vision equipment, which would've allowed considerable ease of navigation without drawing attention.

4. I'm not personally aware of any independent verification of these magnetic readings which would tend to question there validity though I could be mistaken on that point. I did however notice you charitable refrained from mentioning the similar measurements obtained by dousing.

3. Second hand accounts and therefore unverifiable

2. We have a plausible natural explanation for the blown and stretched nodes being the result of solar heating and regrowth of damaged stalks post-flattening. The estimated interval between creation and discovery might be worth examining for any correlation.

Which just leaves

1. Here again we have limited verification. There is as yet no reason to suppose the samples aren't legitimate. The question becomes then how hard would this be to fake? On the surface, not hard at all. In theory one needs only to go to a region where such material is common and run a magnet over the ground to collect it, then broadcast it over the site in a significant manner. The incrusted and imbedded material is more difficult to account for, though when you're looking for anomalies, they tend to turn up, regardless of their origin. A couldn't help but notice though how a slight soil encrustation suddenly became a covering of melted material, which I shouldn't have to tell you is not particularly good for plant tissue.

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#332    DieChecker

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 02:48 AM

View Postzoser, on 14 August 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

Only one:  When are you going to look into this phenomena in a thorough way?
I thought this thread was about Hackpen Hill? Has any of the phenomena associated with "real" crop circles been documented at Hackpen?

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#333    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 03:00 AM

Someone did raise an interesting point about the metal spheres - the farm owners taking potshots at birds (or the circle makers).
So if we accept that as an (note Zoser, I used AN not "the", I'm spitballing a theory) explanation for the metal spheres, and we say the circle makers have invested in night vision gear, the fact the circles are in fairly uninhabited/unvisited areas (so "it wasn't there the last time I was here" could have been weeks before) and fairly flat areas (so hard to see the circles without some serious elevation) then the only unexplained thing going is "electromagnetic energy" which hasn't been identified by anyone other then cerealolgists, fringe ones at that.

A working theory with enough variables to be tested emerges.

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#334    zoser

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 06:21 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 15 August 2013 - 02:48 AM, said:

I thought this thread was about Hackpen Hill? Has any of the phenomena associated with "real" crop circles been documented at Hackpen?

I think it's all related; the OP was questioning how was it created?  OM's post above addresses the issue.

He's wrong of course though.

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#335    zoser

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 06:32 AM

View PostOniomancer, on 15 August 2013 - 01:45 AM, said:

In reverse order:

5. As near as I can ascertain, the short time frame claim is based on the best time manageable by one of the aforementioned old duffers, who, being an old duffer, could hardly be expected to move very quickly on foot under the described conditions at the time. Nor did he or his companion appear to have access to night vision equipment, which would've allowed considerable ease of navigation without drawing attention.

4. I'm not personally aware of any independent verification of these magnetic readings which would tend to question there validity though I could be mistaken on that point. I did however notice you charitable refrained from mentioning the similar measurements obtained by dousing.

3. Second hand accounts and therefore unverifiable

2. We have a plausible natural explanation for the blown and stretched nodes being the result of solar heating and regrowth of damaged stalks post-flattening. The estimated interval between creation and discovery might be worth examining for any correlation.

Which just leaves

1. Here again we have limited verification. There is as yet no reason to suppose the samples aren't legitimate. The question becomes then how hard would this be to fake? On the surface, not hard at all. In theory one needs only to go to a region where such material is common and run a magnet over the ground to collect it, then broadcast it over the site in a significant manner. The incrusted and imbedded material is more difficult to account for, though when you're looking for anomalies, they tend to turn up, regardless of their origin. A couldn't help but notice though how a slight soil encrustation suddenly became a covering of melted material, which I shouldn't have to tell you is not particularly good for plant tissue.

OK but none of the above stands as anything like a proof that the CC's are all the hand of man.  It's just your gut feeling.

Until the footage of the balls of light for example (and I mean all of them) can be explained then this phenomena will continue remain a complete mystery.

It was a mystery from the outset until two old codgers turned up claiming complete responsibility.  In hindsight it's blatantly obvious that this was nothing but a put job to silence the public; the evidence was never there to support their claims.  In the main however the plot worked.  The public did lose interest.

Then CC's became more complex.  Then more circle makers appeared claiming the same thing.

Then the phenomena was examined in more detail; balls of light, microwaved nodes, spherical balls, EM effects, and circles where no human intrusion had occurred.

Some crop circle specialists now claim that 80% are man made and 20% are genuine.  That's OK and that same ratio probably tallies closely with UFO hoaxes against genuine sightings.  

The mystery continues..............

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#336    seeder

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 08:49 AM

View Postzoser, on 15 August 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:



The mystery continues..............

Only in your head

It wasn’t the miners who got rich; it was the people selling picks and shovels. Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored
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#337    seeder

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:02 AM

View Postzoser, on 14 August 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

Please refrain from trolling.  

You have been directed already to the research and the investigators involved.

http://en.wikipedia....roll_(Internet)

Here is the link to the research on spheres.  Follow the research from there.

http://www.unexplain...55#entry4875321

Please also update yourself on the CC phenomena in posts 307 and 308.

Youre just plain ridiculous, but you know that right? You'll argue for anything so long as someone responds to you wont you?  I totally debunked Levenwood already, or should I say, Dr Levenwood, ha. And now you offer up another non descript web page for ....yeh for what? To prove to me that someone 'more official' has studied the alleged phenomena?

Plain stupid. Youre clutching at straws once again. NO aliens are making patterns in the fields, and why would they. Its people, and boards, and bits of string. ONly

It wasn’t the miners who got rich; it was the people selling picks and shovels. Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored
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#338    S2F

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:04 AM

View Postzoser, on 15 August 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

In the main however the plot worked.  The public did lose interest.

I can tell you why I'm losing interest in the ETH side of UFOlogy. It's purely because the 'I, with my limited understanding, can't figure it out so it must be aliens' argument is quite possibly the most asinine and idiotic thing I've ever heard. Hearing it repeated ad nauseum for every case that comes by is getting really really old.

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#339    zoser

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:31 AM

View Postseeder, on 15 August 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

Youre just plain ridiculous, but you know that right? You'll argue for anything so long as someone responds to you wont you?  I totally debunked Levenwood already, or should I say, Dr Levenwood, ha. And now you offer up another non descript web page for ....yeh for what? To prove to me that someone 'more official' has studied the alleged phenomena?

Plain stupid. Youre clutching at straws once again. NO aliens are making patterns in the fields, and why would they. Its people, and boards, and bits of string. ONly

Just because you found what you perceive to be an irregularity in Levengood's credentials in no way counts as a debunk for the work itself.  

I would remind you that you were supplied with two more investigators associated with the sphere phenomena.

Regarding the webpage, I did suggest that you follow the leads from there.  The images are in the public domain along with the research.

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#340    zoser

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:41 AM

View PostSlave2Fate, on 15 August 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

I can tell you why I'm losing interest in the ETH side of UFOlogy. It's purely because the 'I, with my limited understanding, can't figure it out so it must be aliens' argument is quite possibly the most asinine and idiotic thing I've ever heard. Hearing it repeated ad nauseum for every case that comes by is getting really really old.

If you would allow me to offer a counsel:

There is nothing wrong with your interest or commitment to the subject.  There never was.

Your only mistake that you continue to make is that you don't seem to be able to piece things together to deduce what the whole picture is telling you.

Instead you approach things with a belligerent 'show me the alien bodies' attitude that you (and others) have been programmed with by the modern scientific culture.

The UFO phenomena never will be able to be unlocked like that for two main reasons:

1) They do not operate in our everyday dimension; they are just too fast and elusive.
2) When on the rare occasion things have gone wrong for ET's and crashes have occurred, the scene is totally and rapidly sanitised.

Try a different approach.  Try being a collector of pieces of the jigsaw.  Try using other faculties.  You have them.  Then when you have a dozen pieces,  take a step back and see what the picture looks like.  

Stop trying to get that hard evidence in your hand.  It will never happen.

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#341    seeder

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:51 AM

Posted Image

It wasn’t the miners who got rich; it was the people selling picks and shovels. Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me... It's all the rabbit poop you stumble over on your way down...
“It's easier to fool people - than to convince them that they have been fooled.”  Mark Twain

"The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it"

#342    DieChecker

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 12:49 AM

View Postzoser, on 15 August 2013 - 06:21 AM, said:

Quote

DieChecker, on 14 August 2013 - 07:48 PM, said:

I thought this thread was about Hackpen Hill? Has any of the phenomena associated with "real" crop circles been documented at Hackpen?

I think it's all related; the OP was questioning how was it created?  OM's post above addresses the issue.

He's wrong of course though.
Yes, but has any of the signs of a "real" crop circle been found at Hackpen?

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#343    synchronomy

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 04:29 AM

View Postzoser, on 15 August 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

If you would allow me to offer a counsel:

There is nothing wrong with your interest or commitment to the subject.  There never was.

Your only mistake that you continue to make is that you don't seem to be able to piece things together to deduce what the whole picture is telling you.

Instead you approach things with a belligerent 'show me the alien bodies' attitude that you (and others) have been programmed with by the modern scientific culture.

The UFO phenomena never will be able to be unlocked like that for two main reasons:

1) They do not operate in our everyday dimension; they are just too fast and elusive.
2) When on the rare occasion things have gone wrong for ET's and crashes have occurred, the scene is totally and rapidly sanitised.

Try a different approach.  Try being a collector of pieces of the jigsaw.  Try using other faculties.  You have them.  Then when you have a dozen pieces,  take a step back and see what the picture looks like.  

Stop trying to get that hard evidence in your hand.  It will never happen.
I will agree with point 1)
...but point 2)...crashes are speculation...and who "sanitises" the site? Are you one of these folks that believes the government and military operate at some higher level?  They are people and they live among us...they tell their family friends and loved ones what they do at work.

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This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

#344    zoser

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 08:14 AM

View Postsynchronomy, on 21 August 2013 - 04:29 AM, said:

Are you one of these folks that believes the government and military operate at some higher level?  They are people and they live among us...they tell their family friends and loved ones what they do at work.

Well I think the early days of crash retrieval it could well have been the ordinary military.  As time went on and the USAF and the CIA became a lot more interested I think there is a large probability that covert departments were set up to deal with it.  So the idea of people that are untraceable becomes a very real and feasible idea.

Think of the MIB as an example.  I am not sure if some of these are ET and some are human.  Now please read what is below on everyone one of my posts.

Edited by zoser, 21 August 2013 - 08:14 AM.

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#345    Sweetpumper

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 05:06 PM

Here's a new one, more pics in the link:

Posted Image

http://www.cropcircl...mpton2013a.html

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