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Plan to charge children for bullying


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#16    Sakari

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 02:16 AM

View PostLilly, on 12 July 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

When I was young schools could punish kids for their bad behaviour. You could get hours of detention and various public punishments...or even be sent to a 'reform school'. Nowadays the schools can't do much of anything. Instead of putting children into the adult legal system I think we should just give schools back the power necessary to deal with the problem kids.



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#17    Almagest

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 02:32 AM

Because you teach kids not to be violent by being violent towards them.

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When the pendulum swings in favour of one It will eventually swing in favour of it's opposite Thus the balance of the universe is maintained

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#18    Sakari

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 02:41 AM

View PostAlmagest, on 13 July 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:

Because you teach kids not to be violent by being violent towards them.


It is called discipline, and it worked for centuries, once the pussification of America started, and " time outs " were the in thing, and no spanking allowed.......Well, look at kids today, and past couple of decades.....

Pretty obvious.



Certain actions used to mean, a bad outcome......Not anymore.......No lessons to be learned anymore.

Edited by Sakari, 13 July 2013 - 02:43 AM.

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#19    and then

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 02:58 AM

View PostBavarian Raven, on 13 July 2013 - 02:00 AM, said:

Except its part of human - animal - nature, bullying is (not saying its right). It's something almost every single child will do at some time in their life while growing up... so unless you want 95% + of all children "in jail", your system won't work.
Precisely!  And as with almost every situation involving the behavior of children, it is the parents who should be liable because THEY are responsible for how those children are taught (or not) to behave.  The only exception I have for this rule is when the government steps in and refuses to allow the parent to discipline (reasonably) their children.  If a child is brutalizing another child physically or mentally then that child's parents should be made aware and allowed to discipline them accordingly.  If the child continues on the path THEN other steps can be considered.  But charging a 10 year old with a crime for this is senseless.

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  for what could be, the darkest age...

#20    Almagest

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 03:00 AM

I don't think you can chalk up 'kids these days' to a decline in spanking. Kids have always been a pain to the older generations. Do you think kids these days are worse than the Baby Boomers were as kids?

I can only speak from my own experience, but I was more afraid of being lectured by my father than hit by him. He had a way of standing over me and telling me calmly, in a deep voice, that what I did was wrong and that he was disappointed. A smack should not be punishment in itself, it should be reinforcement for such a lecture. The problems of today's youth can't be summed up with 'not enough hitting'. A stable household with a father who doesn't abandon his children, or stay and abuse them, generally produces pretty well-behaved kids.

Life is the result of the struggle between dynamic opposites Form & Chaos, Substance & Oblivion, Light & Dark And all the infinite variations of Yin & Yang
When the pendulum swings in favour of one It will eventually swing in favour of it's opposite Thus the balance of the universe is maintained

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#21    Sakari

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 03:59 AM

View PostAlmagest, on 13 July 2013 - 03:00 AM, said:

I don't think you can chalk up 'kids these days' to a decline in spanking. Kids have always been a pain to the older generations. Do you think kids these days are worse than the Baby Boomers were as kids?

I can only speak from my own experience, but I was more afraid of being lectured by my father than hit by him. He had a way of standing over me and telling me calmly, in a deep voice, that what I did was wrong and that he was disappointed. A smack should not be punishment in itself, it should be reinforcement for such a lecture. The problems of today's youth can't be summed up with 'not enough hitting'. A stable household with a father who doesn't abandon his children, or stay and abuse them, generally produces pretty well-behaved kids.


I am close to baby boomers....Born in 66, wife born in 64. When we were kids, if I did something real bad, a neighbors parent would discipline me. And same would go for my friends. And I do not mean using paddles, but a good spanking worked. We held doors for people, we were respectful and polite. Yes, we did stupid things, but not like I see now.

I have a friend that told his 14 year old son he was not to old to spank, after he was found cutting school ( after time outs and groundings )..His son said " you can't do that ", in a loud and disrespectful way.....Well, he put him over his knees and smacked him once, not even real hard.....His son, was not hurt, did not cry, but got p***ed.

What did he do?....He rode his bike to the Police station and told them. His Dad was arrested for child abuse, and now has it on his record. Kids today tell adults all the time " you can't touch me ".....I have had little punk teenagers say this to me, after being or saying rude crap to my daughter, then telling me to my face to " **** off "......I would never have backed talk an adult.

Dr. Spock had it all wrong if you ask me......He screwed it all up.

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#22    seaturtlehorsesnake

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 05:02 AM

oh, give me a break. violence doesn't encourage good behavior. it might get you obedience through fear, but that's the worst kind of obedience. i hate on this whole false nostalgia for corporal punishment. you want personal anecdotes? my sisters and i were never, ever hit or spanked as children, and we turned out just fine! scarily fine, my sisters still refuse to even swear, because our parents simply told us that we don't do that. i'm the bad apple in that regard, heh.

as for the article itself, while i don't know that i agree with jail time... it seems the main goal is to provide a legal definition for bullying. that seems like a worthwile goal. right now it seems that there's no exact method for dealing with cases of bullying, which makes it hard to approach.

i wasn't bullied too much in school, but i saw plenty of it, and some of it was so mind-numblingly cruel that it still makes me mad.


#23    Jessica Christ

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 05:03 AM

Not surprising that some who are weak on bullying of children would also be for violence against them in other forms such as corporal punishment.


#24    Jessica Christ

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 05:06 AM

View Postpatagonianhorsesnake, on 13 July 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

oh, give me a break. violence doesn't encourage good behavior. it might get you obedience through fear, but that's the worst kind of obedience. i hate on this whole false nostalgia for corporal punishment. you want personal anecdotes? my sisters and i were never, ever hit or spanked as children, and we turned out just fine! scarily fine, my sisters still refuse to even swear, because our parents simply told us that we don't do that. i'm the bad apple in that regard, heh.

as for the article itself, while i don't know that i agree with jail time... it seems the main goal is to provide a legal definition for bullying. that seems like a worthwile goal. right now it seems that there's no exact method for dealing with cases of bullying, which makes it hard to approach.

i wasn't bullied too much in school, but i saw plenty of it, and some of it was so mind-numblingly cruel that it still makes me mad.

Just to offer clarification, "Justice Nicholson said the offence would mean children as young as 10 could be charged but that it would not lead to young people being jailed."


#25    Sakari

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 05:28 AM

View Postpatagonianhorsesnake, on 13 July 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

oh, give me a break. violence doesn't encourage good behavior. it might get you obedience through fear, but that's the worst kind of obedience.




Spanking a kid on his ass is not violence. This is the Pussification of America, right here.

Slapping them in the face, yes, not good....A spanking?...Give me a damn break, violence, what a joke.

It is obedience through respect, not fear.


Kids today, and the last 2 to 3 decades have no idea what " consequences " are, not at all......

I was spanked, even had a brush broke on my ass a few times. I am now 47 years old, and old enough to know, and to say, it was not violence, I was not afraid of my parents, and they were not violent people. Hell, I had it easier then other kids, and their parents did not beat them either.

I can tell you one thing, I did not take money from my dads wallet a second time, because I did not want that again. It was not fear, it was more " consequence ", and it reenforced how stupid I was to do it.

Now, if I had been put in a corner for 3 minutes in a time out, I would have laughed....Grounded in my room for the weekend, kind of sucks, but a spanking on top of that seals the deal.

But hey, lets all tell our kids how to be good and bad, and explain to them in a calm nice fashion ( do not want to hurt their feelings now ) that hitting another kid at school is not good to do, and to please not do it again.......Go ahead, seems to be working great.

To add, I did not see bullying that I read about today. Teachers put a stop to things right away......Do that today, and you have a potential lawsuit for about any off the wall bull****. Have to step away, let the parents take care of it........A time out will suffice...... :no:

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#26    seaturtlehorsesnake

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 05:46 AM

yeah, keep using phrases like "the pussification of america". that's sure going to make me take you seriously.

and bullying sure as hell existed "back then". my mother is 54, and she has horror stories. well, she was small, odd looking, wore glasses, etc. and came from a very poor family. an easy target. you think that the kids who bullied her actually got punished? didn't happen back then. you were supposed to be "tough" and learn to take it.

there's no evidence that corporal punishment helps, and plenty that shows it does harm. bullying won't stop if you allow it. it might get worse, though.

View PostThe world needs you, on 13 July 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

Just to offer clarification, "Justice Nicholson said the offence would mean children as young as 10 could be charged but that it would not lead to young people being jailed."

thanks for that clarification, missed that somehow.


#27    Jessica Christ

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 05:57 AM

View Postpatagonianhorsesnake, on 13 July 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

yeah, keep using phrases like "the pussification of america". that's sure going to make me take you seriously.

Very honest.

Ditto on the rest.


#28    Hawkin

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 06:06 AM

View PostSakari, on 13 July 2013 - 02:16 AM, said:

We had this.........

Posted Image





And it worked.........





And parents could do this..........


Posted Image






And it worked........

My 6th grade teacher had one of those. He called it "The Persuader".

It's good to have some skepticism so you won't be gullible & naïve. But to much skepticism
can make you narrow minded to all possibilities no matter how unconventional.

#29    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 07:41 AM

I've worked with both the bullied and the bullies.
One can't see the light at the end of the tunnel and the other can't see the iact og  their behaviour. And both need help, not criminalisation of the later.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#30    MySummerJob

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 09:33 AM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 12 July 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

nah, you charge mum and dad. As they're the source of the behaviour.

I personally think a fine would be punishment enough.

The parent(s)/legal guardian(s) will be made aware, pay whatever amount the law requires, and then try to prevent their kid from causing anymore trouble.

Edited by MySummerJob, 13 July 2013 - 09:34 AM.

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