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US Military "training for urban environments"

military marshal law civil war

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#31    Allterspace

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:48 PM

View Postszentgyorgy, on 15 July 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

We are? How did I get here?! Who put me in this place?!. . . I want to know who's responsible for this situation!!!

In all seriousness, I do find the lack of communication among branches of government to be-------disturbing. But I've been complaining for months about the militarization of our culture. I think this is another example thereof. The US armed forces have become clumsier, more entitled and therefore less willing and/or able to handle what should be routine PR clearances.

My jaded image of the military is of an adolescent boy used to getting his own way, bloated with fiscal fat and marred by self-image problems stemming from dubious wars, now biting the hand that feeds it. And then trying to shirk chores around the house (i.e., properly care for veterans).

By a lack of critical thinking about, and permissiveness towards, the military since at least 2001, we the people are reaping what we've sown.

That is a good way of looking at it, I remember being on my ship and requesting a new pair of boots because of a hydrolic leak. We requested many times, but I guess we were to much of a paperwork headach for the supply division to replace ours. Hydrolic fluid burns skin and is very hard to get out of the insides of boots. Anyways chemical burns I can live with I went and purchaced another pair. The thing that bother me was when we decommisioned the ship. Every department on our last voyage jettisoned everything they could find which wasn't tied down. The supply department was one of the one in charge. Brand new tools, supplies, electronics, furnature, and 2 pallets of brand new boots. All because the division officers were to lazy to sign the paperwork to send the supplies to ships who needed it (DRO). Thats our taxpayer money! sad.


#32    Likely Guy

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:00 AM

Where's the 'conspiracy' here again? The military screwed up and didn't tell the good people of Port Angeles about their exercise.

I'll need more than a link to infowars I guess.

Edit: Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.

http://www.seattlepi...ers-4665607.php

Edited by Likely Guy, 16 July 2013 - 12:12 AM.


#33    RaptorBites

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:04 AM

View PostAllterspace, on 15 July 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:



I agree with you it may be important in other countries such as Iraq and Afganistan where suicide bombers are in the thousands. But this is Home Land Security.

Tinybox13- Yeah I wonder what list I would be put on if I went to the range and fired at pictures of a person I felt threatened about such as our commander in cheif. I dont beleive I would be able to fly after that!

So what you are insinuating is that only other countries that have elderly, pregnant women, and children taking up arms are considerent hostile threats but not in the US?

Double standard much?

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#34    No Censorship

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 03:39 AM

View Postlightly, on 15 July 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

   Murphy's brother... Murph's law states that  'if anything can go wrong.. it will'   ... Marshal's law is ....  Everything HAS gone wrong.      

That's a good theory. Murphy's Law often leads to Marshal Law which sometimes leads to martial law.

There is one reality with billions of versions.

#35    Otto von Pickelhaube

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 07:24 AM

View PostRaptorBites, on 16 July 2013 - 12:04 AM, said:

So what you are insinuating is that only other countries that have elderly, pregnant women, and children taking up arms are considerent hostile threats but not in the US?

Double standard much?
i see the point, though. Fatherland Security, for all the use they seem to be, are supposed to be restricted to operating within the US, so I wonder what scenario they're imagining here? It would have to be way beyond a mere breakdown of civil order, it would have to be some apocalyptic civil war scenario where pregnant women and your granny stalk the streets with guns. They do seem to be aiming at encouraging an attitude of absolute ruthlessness among their operatives, and even if they're not envisaging imposing Martial Law themselves, this could well be seen as a worrying development, seeing that these aren't properly trained military personnel.

If, as it seems, we are in the process of becoming a totalitarian society in which the state apparatus is all-powerful, the ethics most important for the survival of the true, free, human individual would be: cheat, lie, evade, fake it, be elsewhere, forge documents, build improved electronic gadgets in your garage that’ll outwit the gadgets used by the authorities.

- Philip K. Dick.


#36    Little Fish

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 07:46 AM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 16 July 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

it would have to be some apocalyptic civil war scenario where pregnant women and your granny stalk the streets with guns.
pregnant women, young children and grannies are not going to be stalking in the street with guns. you've been watching too many zombie films.

"so I wonder what scenario they're imagining here?"
the obvious answer is they are training for gun confiscation.

Edited by Little Fish, 16 July 2013 - 07:46 AM.


#37    RaptorBites

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 05:13 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 16 July 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

pregnant women, young children and grannies are not going to be stalking in the street with guns. you've been watching too many zombie films.

"so I wonder what scenario they're imagining here?"
the obvious answer is they are training for gun confiscation.

No.

You need to come back to reality.

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#38    Babe Ruth

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:02 PM

View PostStellar, on 15 July 2013 - 02:17 AM, said:


Exactly. Rude behaviour. Thats all. Not some nefarious attempt by the military to enslave the US population like the author is trying to make out.

Why didnt they tell anybody? Ask the general. As for Posse Comitatus, how exactly does this have anything to do with it?

Posse Comitatus was passed to keep the military out of enforcing civil laws.  It was fairly well rendered "null & void" by the War On Drugs, back during the Reagan administration.

These units were flying in support of some kind of Orwellian scheme involving enforcement of civil laws.  Get it?  Just like they did down in Miami last year.  As americans are conditioned to having the military play the role of law enforcement, they accept it as perfectly legal and good.  It ain't.


#39    Babe Ruth

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:05 PM

View PostRaptorBites, on 15 July 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

Yes, classic cases of urban guerilla warfare.  We are in a day and age where it is not only men doing the fighting, but women, children, and the elderly have taken arms and become enemy combatants.

I personally experienced it in my 2 tours of duty overseas.

Why anyone would think that women, children, and the elderly are above becoming threats when they hold a weapon and point it at others.

A perverse "thanks" for the perverse insight into the efficacy of military brainwashing.  It ain't pretty, but it is interesting in all the wrong ways.


#40    Otto von Pickelhaube

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 07:18 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 16 July 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

pregnant women, young children and grannies are not going to be stalking in the street with guns. you've been watching too many zombie films.

"so I wonder what scenario they're imagining here?"
the obvious answer is they are training for gun confiscation.
Zombies wouldn't need guns.

If, as it seems, we are in the process of becoming a totalitarian society in which the state apparatus is all-powerful, the ethics most important for the survival of the true, free, human individual would be: cheat, lie, evade, fake it, be elsewhere, forge documents, build improved electronic gadgets in your garage that’ll outwit the gadgets used by the authorities.

- Philip K. Dick.


#41    lightly

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 07:25 PM

View PostRaptorBites, on 15 July 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

Yes, classic cases of urban guerilla warfare.  We are in a day and age where it is not only men doing the fighting, but women, children, and the elderly have taken arms and become enemy combatants.

I personally experienced it in my 2 tours of duty overseas.

Why anyone would think that women, children, and the elderly are above becoming threats when they hold a weapon and point it at others.

I'm glad you made it home . "Urban" warfare is too horrific.   These 'matters'  should be handled at higher levels than peoples homes? Ya, i know.." but the bad guys are hiding in there" .    So many civilians end up getting killed,  however and whyever so,  in Urban warfare that it seems  counterproductive .


            *

Edited by lightly, 16 July 2013 - 07:28 PM.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#42    RaptorBites

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 07:30 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 16 July 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:



A perverse "thanks" for the perverse insight into the efficacy of military brainwashing.  It ain't pretty, but it is interesting in all the wrong ways.

How is it brainwashing?  

Answer this:

Are elderly , pregnant women, and children pointing what might be a loaded firearm directly at you considered a dangerous threat?

Yes or No?

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#43    Little Fish

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:59 PM

View PostRaptorBites, on 16 July 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

How is it brainwashing?  

Answer this:

Are elderly , pregnant women, and children pointing what might be a loaded firearm directly at you considered a dangerous threat?

Yes or No?
under what situation and circumstances outside of fiction are 80 year old pensioners, 8 year old boys and pregnant women going to threatening police with guns, other than self defence???
those tours messed you up.


#44    RaptorBites

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:36 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 16 July 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

under what situation and circumstances outside of fiction are 80 year old pensioners, 8 year old boys and pregnant women going to threatening police with guns, other than self defence???
those tours messed you up.
Why dance around my question.  It was a simple yes or no, however ill entertain your obvious bias in this situation.

Who said it was in self defense?  Who's to say the targets where on the offensive?

Your lack of viewing things outside your fantasy world bubble is really telling.

Edited by RaptorBites, 16 July 2013 - 09:40 PM.

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#45    Stellar

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 02:53 AM

Quote

Posse Comitatus was passed to keep the military out of enforcing civil laws.  It was fairly well rendered "null & void" by the War On Drugs, back during the Reagan administration.


By the war on drugs? So... not by this?

Quote

These units were flying in support of some kind of Orwellian scheme involving enforcement of civil laws.  Get it?  Just like they did down in Miami last year.  As americans are conditioned to having the military play the role of law enforcement, they accept it as perfectly legal and good.  It ain't.


Really? They were flying in support of an Orwellian scheme for law enforcement? It's impossible they were simply training for operating in urban areas?

Quote



under what situation and circumstances outside of fiction are 80 year old pensioners, 8 year old boys and pregnant women going to threatening police with guns, other than self defence???
those tours messed you up.


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