Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 1 votes

Tutankhamun, a new theory on his death


  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#16    kmt_sesh

kmt_sesh

    Telekinetic

  • 7,275 posts
  • Joined:08 Jul 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago, Illinois

Posted 21 July 2013 - 05:09 AM

View PostTutankhaten-pasheri, on 20 July 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

Ah, I forgot about Carter's description of the wrappings being like soot. So another theory thrown in the dustbin of history...... :blush:

I certainly think foriegn interference in Egypt would be a nightmare, and very unlikely. My post was realy about a matter of concience. Could we stand by and watch the Egyptian Museum pillaged and destroyed, or various sites destroyed. I don't think the pyramids are in real danger, but it would be a very easy task with a few big dozers to destroy Karnak for instance. Could we stand aside IF this happened, I don't know.

LOL Sadly we've already done so. At the very onset of the riots that would lead to Mubarak's ouster, you'll recall how an inside job led to the looting of the Egyptian Museum in Cairo. Not a hell of a lot was taken, but there was looting. That was only one place in Egypt. Up and down the Nile Valley in the ensuing weeks, many warehouses and magazines in which archaeological artifacts were being stored, were looted and heavily damaged. Central authority disappeared from many areas and the military itself took a step back as though to see what would happen next—which led to widespread looting of ancient necropoli by local villagers.

Several years back, a very rare Dynasty 19 tomb was found in the Delta. Looters entered it and, finding nothing really to steal, proceeded to decimate the relief carvings on the tomb walls.

The short of it is, the situation in Egypt in those days was actually worse than the worldwide media was letting on. It was pretty awful. The protestors were not to blame; they had every right to toss out the despot Mubarak. However, in the course of peaceful protests, sub-human vermin was oozing out of the cracks everywhere to take advantage of political unrest for personal profit. Looting was wide-scale.

Obviously nothing was done to stop this. Legally, nothing could be done. The Egyptians themselves would've had to appeal to the UN for military intervention, and it did not happen. It hasn't happened at any point since then, so no one is about to send in their military. Now I think it's obvious how much of an Egyptophile I am, and how much I love to research ancient Egypt, but even I would have to admit that governments are not going to favor ancient monuments over human life. Thank goodness it has settled down a lot, but it's considerably unlikely that any foreign government would intervene for the sake of the Great Pyramid.

Look what the cave-dwelling, dimwitted Taliban did to those Buddhist monuments in Afghanistan. As awful and regrettable as that was, no one could do anything about it.

Posted Image
Words of wisdom from Richard Clopton:
For every credibility gap there is a gullibility fill.

Visit My Blog!

#17    Tutankhaten-pasheri

Tutankhaten-pasheri

    Buratinologist

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,637 posts
  • Joined:22 Sep 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:страна дураков

Posted 21 July 2013 - 07:34 AM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 21 July 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

LOL Sadly we've already done so. At the very onset of the riots that would lead to Mubarak's ouster, you'll recall how an inside job led to the looting of the Egyptian Museum in Cairo. Not a hell of a lot was taken, but there was looting. That was only one place in Egypt. Up and down the Nile Valley in the ensuing weeks, many warehouses and magazines in which archaeological artifacts were being stored, were looted and heavily damaged. Central authority disappeared from many areas and the military itself took a step back as though to see what would happen next—which led to widespread looting of ancient necropoli by local villagers.

I was aware of much of this, and like many, on both sides of the revolution and outsiders like us, still wait for a reason why the police dissapeared in most of Egypt for several weeks. I do not expect an answer to this any time soon though....

What I was thinking of though was not this "low level" criminality, that generally does not get world attention, but if a civil war broke out or a government took power that had the same ideas as the Taliban. If they started to demolish major monuments, maybe not the pyramids, but as I mentioned before, the Karnak temples, Edfu, Abu Simbel etc, places that the general public around the world know, at least by name, what would we do?  I play devil's advocate here, and ask is the life of some low life scum worth more than what AE has left for the world? Can we really put the lives individuals who will contribute nothing in their entire worthless lives before these treasures? I think all countries will have some laws that allow police or military to shoot looters in emergency situations. Simply scale this up to a country being the looter. But as I said, this is a moral dilema, and one for those with a much higher pay grade than us. If some disaster happened and we did nothing, then as I suggested, in 100 years these criminals would all be dead and forgotten, and the treasures gone. I think we would be condemned in the future for not acting. In another thread mention is made of the destruction of the library of Alexandria. Well, we know there were several burnings over a period of time, but there was a final attack on it by the mob. We decry this, we say it was barbaric, and rightly so, and I suspect we would go back in time, if we could, at stop it happening. Today we are in a position to do something to prevent the, so far, theoretical destruction of the major monuments in Egypt. Do we sit back, wring our hands and shout, or take action, if possible, if...


#18    Tutankhaten-pasheri

Tutankhaten-pasheri

    Buratinologist

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,637 posts
  • Joined:22 Sep 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:страна дураков

Posted 21 July 2013 - 09:05 AM

View Postcladking, on 20 July 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

I have to disagree with you here.  One human life is worth a million dead human lives.  The
loss to the world of ancient Egypt would be incalculable but it shouldn't affect a decision to help
or intervene in Egyptian affairs.  Let's pray it never becomes an issue.

I'm still highly optimistic that Egypt will become the Egypt best suite to Egyptians of their own doing.

I strongly agree that the ancient ruins are very worthy of any help or protection the rest of the world can
offer.  

Oh certainly Egyptians should be masters of themselves and their fate. I certainly see that life is more important than property. But, playing Devil's advocate, are the lives of a mob more important than the great treusures their ancestors have left us? If a mob attacked the Coliseum with the intention of tearing it down, and the Italian police stood to one side, or even joined in, the condemnation would be huge, and this would be so for other sites of importance around the world. Ankor Wat, Teotihuacan, Stonehenge. Or even more modern place such as St Basil's Cathedral in Red Square, St Peter's in Rome, Notre Dam etc. These are priceless things left to us, should we let them go for the sake of not dealing with a mob, who will leave nothing to posterity except destruction and their genes, of doubtful use....   Yes, I may seem like a monster who does not value life, but it is simply a rhetorical question. In the hall of Justice, what will weigh heavier on the scales, the magnificent achievents of the ancestors, or the lives of a mob who will leave nothing except destruction. Slightly slanted question, but clear I think......

Edited by Tutankhaten-pasheri, 21 July 2013 - 09:07 AM.


#19    Antilles

Antilles

    NCC-1701

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,139 posts
  • Joined:23 Jul 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:2nd star from the left

Posted 21 July 2013 - 11:22 AM

H'm. I visited Egypt when Mubarek was President but no-one seems to remember the murders of tourists that have happened since the 90's.

http://www.usdivetra...tTerrorism.html

I don't want to see any looting of AE tombs and sites but I don't believe you can  say oh Egypt has just suddenly become a dangerous place. Let's face it, the Egyptians have been looting tombs since they were built. Who do you think the tomb robbers were? Is there any difference between the reasons for ancient tomb looting and anything that happens now?

And as for Zawass, maybe he did some good somewhere along the line but his time is over.


#20    Tutankhaten-pasheri

Tutankhaten-pasheri

    Buratinologist

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,637 posts
  • Joined:22 Sep 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:страна дураков

Posted 21 July 2013 - 12:08 PM

View PostAntilles, on 21 July 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

H'm. I visited Egypt when Mubarek was President but no-one seems to remember the murders of tourists that have happened since the 90's.

http://www.usdivetra...tTerrorism.html

I don't want to see any looting of AE tombs and sites but I don't believe you can  say oh Egypt has just suddenly become a dangerous place. Let's face it, the Egyptians have been looting tombs since they were built. Who do you think the tomb robbers were? Is there any difference between the reasons for ancient tomb looting and anything that happens now?

And as for Zawass, maybe he did some good somewhere along the line but his time is over.
Only rhetorical, only if Egypt is overwhelmed by civil war or a faction comes to power that starts the sytematic destruction of the remains of AE. The murder of tourists, notably the Luxor massacre, was by Islamists who have no love of the momuments. And shortly before the current unrest, the Muslim Brotherhood Governor of Luxor had to be replaced because he was saying things that intimated he also had no love of the monuments. There is a fight in Egypt between realists and people whose lives depends on AE, and that as you will know is very many, and the medieval reactionary forces of the Muslim Brotherhood and those more dangerous groups hanging on their coat tails. So, what will the world do IF the bulldozers go into Karnak, and IF the mob storm the Egyptian Museum properly this time, cart off the saleable treasures, destroy the "idols" and make a bonfire of the mummies. This is not inconceivable, so, what will we do IF these things seem about to happen, or actually begin? Stand to one side tearing our hair and wailing, or take action. This is my rhetorical question, what do we do if the nightmare is cleary about to happen, or happens?


#21    cladking

cladking

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,201 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2006
  • Location:Indiana

  • Tempus fugit.

Posted 21 July 2013 - 02:41 PM

View PostTutankhaten-pasheri, on 21 July 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

Oh certainly Egyptians should be masters of themselves and their fate. I certainly see that life is more important than property. But, playing Devil's advocate, are the lives of a mob more important than the great treusures their ancestors have left us? If a mob attacked the Coliseum with the intention of tearing it down, and the Italian police stood to one side, or even joined in, the condemnation would be huge, and this would be so for other sites of importance around the world. Ankor Wat, Teotihuacan, Stonehenge. Or even more modern place such as St Basil's Cathedral in Red Square, St Peter's in Rome, Notre Dam etc. These are priceless things left to us, should we let them go for the sake of not dealing with a mob, who will leave nothing to posterity except destruction and their genes, of doubtful use....   Yes, I may seem like a monster who does not value life, but it is simply a rhetorical question. In the hall of Justice, what will weigh heavier on the scales, the magnificent achievents of the ancestors, or the lives of a mob who will leave nothing except destruction. Slightly slanted question, but clear I think......

In the real world there are intangibles and tangibles that are worth more than human life.  Love, honor,
loyalty can all be worth more than life.  Governments and industrialists value human life all the time by
counting the number who will die statistically from a change and comparing it to the value or benefit of
that change.  If they can sell X% more cars with N more deaths then they proceed.  Human life is largely
valued on how much it cosats in law suits unfortunately.  Obviously Egyptian heritage is of the utmost
important and should be protected at huge cost and that even includes the statistical death toll. But this
isn't in reference to force or armed conflict but merely the likely cost in human life if diplomatic actions re-
sult in the introduction of measures to protect these sites on the ground or through other measures.  I'm
in a lot of agreement that looters getting hurt have precipitated their own problems.

But any action of any sort should be part of a diplomacy and diplomats can't count people who are going
to die like a manufacturer or a government.  As Dr Hawass has said that while these are Egyptian sites
they are world heritage.  This is the origin of all men and all civilization and today's Egypt is its caretaker
with a responsibility to protect and preserve them.  Just because these are Egyptian sites gives no one
anywhere the right to loot or destroy them.  I really just think it's best these sites take a back seat to the
more immidiate and pressing concerns of Egyptians.  Any help given to Egypt should be legitimate and
for their benefit.

Almost anyone can join a mob (that's why they grow so easily) but I still have little concern for their welfare.
The word "panic", I believe, is another word that sprang up near the pyramids.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#22    Tutankhaten-pasheri

Tutankhaten-pasheri

    Buratinologist

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,637 posts
  • Joined:22 Sep 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:страна дураков

Posted 21 July 2013 - 07:14 PM

View Postcladking, on 21 July 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

  Any help given to Egypt should be legitimate and
for their benefit.
It is contentious, though perhaps help in finding a new Nasser would improve the situation. He had faults, but he gave Egyptians pride, and a sense of self determination they never had before, even though he was essentialy a dictator. An Egyptian opinion would be worthwhile, in fact several different Egyptian opinions would be worthwhile.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users