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Edgar Mitchell calls for end to UFO cover-ups


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#121    badeskov

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 05:37 AM

View Postconspiracy buff, on 25 July 2013 - 04:57 AM, said:

Again, I am saying that he claims to have seen enough to make him PERSONALLY believe that UFOs exist.

No, he claims to have heard from others. He hasn't seen anything. Pure hearsay.

Quote

That is his stance on the issue, therefore since he has no direct proof all we can go on is his word.

Which is simply not good enough, astronaut or not. Astronauts are as fallible as the rest of us.

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You somehow misinterpreted what I said was his personal belief and deteriorated into asking for evidence itself.

You yourself mentioned that he had seen evidence, how else could it be interpreted?

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Any logical person would obviously give more weight to someone who has been to outer space and most likely seen more than, I dunno, you have?

No. No scientist would ever do something like that.

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If a former astronaut is telling us that he has seen things then we must give that more weight than your average joe who isn't in a position to make the same claim.

You seem to think that astronauts are infallible. Guess what, they are not. They are as nutty as the rest of us. Like Lisa Novak that drove 900 miles wearing a diaper to hit her rival on the head. Edgar Mitchell has a belief, fair enough, but that is all that he has and he has explicitly stated that that is all he has.

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#122    JimOberg

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 05:39 AM

View Postbadeskov, on 25 July 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

.... Nobody is arguing that space is empty and that we are alone in the vastness of the Universe. All that is being argued is whether life from elsewhere is visiting Earth.  

I don't think that's even the point -- they could well be visiting, and don't allow us to detect them. The argument is that SOME of the zillions of worldwide UFO reports can only be explained by non-prosaic and extraordinary stimuli. And that the failure of human researchers to find prosaic explanations for some reports is proof that no such explanations exist.


#123    badeskov

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 05:40 AM

View PostJimOberg, on 25 July 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

I don't think that's even the point -- they could well be visiting, and don't allow us to detect them. The argument is that SOME of the zillions of worldwide UFO reports can only be explained by non-prosaic and extraordinary stimuli. And that the failure of human researchers to find prosaic explanations for some reports is proof that no such explanations exist.

Well put, Jim.

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#124    Truthseeker007

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 07:30 AM

View Postbadeskov, on 25 July 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

No, he claims to have heard from others. He hasn't seen anything. Pure hearsay.



Which is simply not good enough, astronaut or not. Astronauts are as fallible as the rest of us.



You yourself mentioned that he had seen evidence, how else could it be interpreted?



No. No scientist would ever do something like that.



You seem to think that astronauts are infallible. Guess what, they are not. They are as nutty as the rest of us. Like Lisa Novak that drove 900 miles wearing a diaper to hit her rival on the head. Edgar Mitchell has a belief, fair enough, but that is all that he has and he has explicitly stated that that is all he has.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Badeskov you are correct on Mitchell:

On Dateline NBC in 1996, Mitchell was even more candid.


"I have no firsthand experience, but I have had the opportunity to meet with people from three countries who in the course of their official duties claim to have had personal firsthand encounter experiences... with Extraterrestrials," he said.

http://www.bibliotec...omissions05.htm

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#125    Truthseeker007

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 07:42 AM

Astronaut Gordon Cooper's Message to the UN

"I believe that these extraterrestrial vehicles and their crews are visiting this planet from other planets, which are a little more technically advanced than we are on Earth. I feel that we need to have a top level, coordinated program to scientifically collect and analyze data from all over the Earth concerning any type of encounter, and to determine how best to interfere with these visitors in a friendly fashion.

We may first have to show them that we have learned how to resolve our problems by peaceful means rather than warfare, before we are accepted as fully qualified universal team members. Their acceptance will have tremendous possibilities of advancing our world in all areas. Certainly then it would seem that the U.N. has a vested interest in handling the subject quickly and properly.

I should point out that I am not an experienced UFO professional researcher - I have not as yet had the privilege of flying a UFO nor of meeting the crew of one. However, I do feel that I am somewhat qualified to discuss them, since I have been into the fringes of the vast areas of which they travel. Also, I did have occasion in 1951 to have two days of observation of many flights of them, of different sizes flying in fighter formation, generally from west to east over Europe. They were at a higher altitude than we could reach with our jet fighters....

If the U.N. agrees to pursue this project and lend the credibility to it, perhaps many more well qualified people will agree to step forth and provide help and information

Read more:

http://www.ufoeviden...ents/doc961.htm

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#126    Truthseeker007

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 07:56 AM

Perhaps the best documented astronaut sighting occurred aboard Gemini 7 in 1965. Astronaut Mc Divitt saw "a cylindrical object with an antenna-like extension". According to Mc Divitt's account of the incident the distance of the object, which was silvery in appearance, was impossible to gauge, but at least initially was more than just several miles distant. At that time it was in "free drifting flight" over the Pacific Ocean. Suddenly the craft appeared to change direction till it was on a collision course towards them. Hastily the astronauts began to consider preparations for avoiding action, but the craft ran past them without incident.

A further drama aboard Gemini 4 concerned a bright object going from "south to north", above the space craft. Later investigation deepened the mystery still further when it was confirmed there was no satellite traffic in the area at that time!

Yet an another strange sighting occurred aboard Gemini 7. Astronauts Borman and Lovell reported sighting a "bogey" at ten o'clock high. Exchanges with Mission Control confirmed this was not the rocket booster and subsequently a variety of small particles - never properly explained - were observed at a distance of 3 or 4 miles.

Condon enquiry.

Each of the three above mentioned incidents was thoroughly investigated by the infamous Condon Inquiry. The conclusion was that the incidents were definitely "unexplained", and in the "highest category of credibility"! And as Edgar Mitchell reveals a lot of people know a lot more than they're telling, astonishing revelations that must eventually become known!

http://www.ufoeviden...ents/doc507.htm

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#127    Otto von Pickelhaube

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 08:18 AM

Well, of course the Condom Inquiry was a coverup.

:cry:

If, as it seems, we are in the process of becoming a totalitarian society in which the state apparatus is all-powerful, the ethics most important for the survival of the true, free, human individual would be: cheat, lie, evade, fake it, be elsewhere, forge documents, build improved electronic gadgets in your garage that’ll outwit the gadgets used by the authorities.

- Philip K. Dick.


#128    JimOberg

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 11:09 AM

View PostTruthseeker007, on 26 July 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

Astronaut Gordon Cooper's Message to the UN
Also, I did have occasion in 1951 to have two days of observation of many flights of them, of different sizes flying in fighter formation, generally from west to east over Europe. They were at a higher altitude than we could reach with our jet fighters....

A "classic" astronaut-UFO story with "classic" UFOlogical non-investigative gullibility. Where are the reports of verification efforts of this claim, or do you suggest that certain categories of witnesses be treated as divinely infallible and any efforts to verify such claims be forbidden? At a minimum, what checks would you like to have seen made?


#129    JimOberg

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 11:24 AM

View PostTruthseeker007, on 26 July 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

Perhaps the best documented astronaut sighting occurred aboard Gemini 7 in 1965. Astronaut Mc Divitt saw "a cylindrical object with an antenna-like extension". According to Mc Divitt's account of the incident the distance of the object, which was silvery in appearance, was impossible to gauge, but at least initially was more than just several miles distant. At that time it was in "free drifting flight" over the Pacific Ocean. Suddenly the craft appeared to change direction till it was on a collision course towards them. Hastily the astronauts began to consider preparations for avoiding action, but the craft ran past them without incident.

Thanks for posting another example of what is fatally wrong about modern 'UFO studies' and with the work of modern UFO buffs. It goes a long way towards explaining why they remain clueless about the phenomenon and helpless to figure ways to even obtain clues.

1. Astronaut McDivitt wasn't even on board Gemini-7 and 'documentation' alleging he WAS, is bogus..
2. The words in quotation marks, attributed to McDivitt, are not his, so that alleged fact is illusional.
3. The claim that McDivitt [referring to his Gemini-FOUR experience] reported an initial distance of 'several miles' is fictitious.
4. The claim that the UFO was "in free drifting flight" is garbled beyond all recognition.
5. The claim that the UFO was seen to suddenly change direction is contrary to McDivitt's consistent story, and is imaginary.
6. The narrative that "the astronauts" grew concerned is garbled since half of the crew was asleep,

Your failure to realize the fatal flaws of even what you offer as 'best evidence' is dismaying but typical.


#130    Truthseeker007

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 11:49 AM

View PostJimOberg, on 26 July 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

A "classic" astronaut-UFO story with "classic" UFOlogical non-investigative gullibility. Where are the reports of verification efforts of this claim, or do you suggest that certain categories of witnesses be treated as divinely infallible and any efforts to verify such claims be forbidden? At a minimum, what checks would you like to have seen made?

I'm just posting information. Whether you believe it or not it is up for you to decide or debate.

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#131    Truthseeker007

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 11:51 AM

View PostJimOberg, on 26 July 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

Thanks for posting another example of what is fatally wrong about modern 'UFO studies' and with the work of modern UFO buffs. It goes a long way towards explaining why they remain clueless about the phenomenon and helpless to figure ways to even obtain clues.

1. Astronaut McDivitt wasn't even on board Gemini-7 and 'documentation' alleging he WAS, is bogus..
2. The words in quotation marks, attributed to McDivitt, are not his, so that alleged fact is illusional.
3. The claim that McDivitt [referring to his Gemini-FOUR experience] reported an initial distance of 'several miles' is fictitious.
4. The claim that the UFO was "in free drifting flight" is garbled beyond all recognition.
5. The claim that the UFO was seen to suddenly change direction is contrary to McDivitt's consistent story, and is imaginary.
6. The narrative that "the astronauts" grew concerned is garbled since half of the crew was asleep,

Your failure to realize the fatal flaws of even what you offer as 'best evidence' is dismaying but typical.

Do you have links or proof to back up your claims?

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#132    Truthseeker007

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 11:59 AM

Donald (Deke) Slayton


“I was testing a P-51 fighter in Minneapolis when I spotted this object.  I was at about 10,000 feet on a nice, bright, sunny afternoon.  I thought the object was a kite, then I realized that no kite is gonna fly that high.  As I got closer it looked like a weather balloon, gray and about three feet in diameter.  But as soon as I got behind the darn thing it didn’t look like a balloon anymore.  It looked like a saucer, a disk.  About the same time, I realized that it was suddenly going way from me --- and there I was, running at about 300 miles per hour.  I tracked it for a little way, and then all of a sudden the damn thing just took off.  It pulled about a 45 degree climbing turn and accelerated and just flat disappeared.”


Donald Slayton, Mercury astronaut, in a 1951 interview

James V. Forrestal


The truth was known by only a very few persons.  Of the original group that were the first to learn, several [supposedly] committed suicide, the most prominent of which was Forrestal, who jumped to his death from a 16th story hospital window.  Secretary Forrestal’s records are sealed to this day.


Comment:  
Forrestal believed that the public should know about the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence and their superior technological capabilities.  He was very willing to go public with this information.  Did he really commit suicide ... or was he murdered to keep him silent?  It was reported that his body was found wrapped tightly in a bedsheet.  How does one tie himself up in a bedsheet and jump out a window on his own?  Were the other supposed suicides acutally murders to ensure those individuals remained silent, also?
Forrestal was Secretary of Defense during the Harry S. Truman administration.

Cosmonaut Victor Afanasyev


“It followed us during half of our orbit.  We observed it on the light side, and when we entered the shadow side, it disappeared completely.  It was an engineered structure, made from some type of metal, approximately 40 meters long with inner hulls.  The object was narrow here and wider here, and inside there were openings.  Some places had projections like small wings.  The object stayed very close to us.  We photographed it, and our photos showed it to be 23 to 28 meters away.”


Afanasyev commenting on a UFO sighting that occurred while en route to the Solyut 6 space station in April of 1979

http://www.gravitywa...Testimonies.htm




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#133    Truthseeker007

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:30 PM

The government has denied their existence for decades. Popular media portrays UFO's as science fiction, and their believers as crackpots. Yet images of them have been seen in cave paintings, in religious artworks and elsewhere for centuries. Many people don't believe they exist, but then again most people never look up and watch the sky. So, before everyone laughs and says I'm crazy, let's look at the evidence.





The 509th Bomb Group was the first unit to be nuclear armed. This unit was thought highly enough to be given the task of dropping the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. These men obviously knew their stuff.


In July 1947, the intelligence department of this unit gave a press release. The 509th declared to the world publicly that they recovered the remains of a “flying disk.” This was in Roswell, New Mexico and is known as the Roswell Incident – the most famous case in 'UFOlogy.' The following day, after the arrival of General Ramey, the Army Air Corps retracted their previous press release and issued a new one saying they recovered a weather balloon.

Read On here:
http://malin.hubpage...overnment-Knows

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#134    JimOberg

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:34 PM

View PostTruthseeker007, on 26 July 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

   Yet an another strange sighting occurred aboard Gemini 7. Astronauts Borman and Lovell reported sighting a "bogey" at ten o'clock high. Exchanges with Mission Control confirmed this was not the rocket booster and subsequently a variety of small particles - never properly explained - were observed at a distance of 3 or 4 miles.

Condon enquiry.

Each of the three above mentioned incidents was thoroughly investigated by the infamous Condon Inquiry. The conclusion was that the incidents were definitely "unexplained", and in the "highest category of credibility"! And as Edgar Mitchell reveals a lot of people know a lot more than they're telling, astonishing revelations that must eventually become known!

Compare this fictionalized version with direct eyewitness testimony:

Borman twice debunks UFO story
http://www.jamesober...orman.frank.pdf

Details of formation-flying with booster
http://www.jamesoberg.com/gemini7.html


#135    JimOberg

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:37 PM

View PostTruthseeker007, on 26 July 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

I'm just posting information. Whether you believe it or not it is up for you to decide or debate.

BS. I'm arguing it is NOT "information", it's misinformation, and I'm providing the checkable sources to verify this, and the fact that you disclaim any responsibility for the truth or falsehood of what you published is pitiful but typical of the intellectual bankruptcy of modern ufology. Don't complain if the subject looks baffling and mysterious -- sloppy documentation and wooly thinking on the part of proponernts make it so and will keep it so forever unless somebody catches on. You wanna be first? We can help.





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