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The ultimate rebellion against God


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#1    ambelamba

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 02:06 PM

Be moral. Be ethical. Be compassionate. Be considerate to fellow lifeforms. Be kind to the nature. Be altruistic and egalitarian. Don't be selfish and greedy.

Always act on moral ground. That's the ultimate rebellion against God, who created us to watch us suffer for entertainment.

They came with a Bible and their religion. stole our land, crushed our spirit, and now they tell us we should be thankful to the Lord for being saved.

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#2    Bavarian Raven

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 02:12 PM

I think you have some issues that need working out there buddy. ;)


#3    Jessem

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 02:16 PM

RJ, people "translate" God to be as they are themselves... which is why some people won't believe he exists. I agree with raven, but self reflection and some counseling never hurts either :).

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#4    ambelamba

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 02:17 PM

Well, to me maltheism is a quite logical conclusion. :/

They came with a Bible and their religion. stole our land, crushed our spirit, and now they tell us we should be thankful to the Lord for being saved.

-Chief Pontiac (1718-1769)

#5    Bavarian Raven

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 02:19 PM

Quote

RJ, people "translate" God to be as they are themselves... which is why some people won't believe he exists. I agree with raven, but self reflection and some counseling never hurts either

Thanks, and while I'm sure he is referring to the "christian/muslim/jewish" God, he should have at least specified. Different religions and different Gods all have different messages. Lol. So he needs to pick a specific God to rebel against or he's in for one hell of a fight ;)


#6    Zaphod222

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 02:21 PM

View PostRon Jeremy, on 21 July 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

Be moral. Be ethical. Be compassionate. Be considerate to fellow lifeforms. Be kind to the nature. Be altruistic and egalitarian. Don't be selfish and greedy.

Always act on moral ground. That's the ultimate rebellion against God, who created us to watch us suffer for entertainment.

Pal, if you are an atheist, you have no interest in rebelling against some fictious entity. And if you are a theist, it would seem pretty dumb to rebell against sombody infinetly superior to you...

So I really don´t see where your comment fits in. You seem to have some weird personal issues that are bothering you.

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#7    JMPD1

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 04:18 PM

View PostBavarian Raven, on 21 July 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

Thanks, and while I'm sure he is referring to the "christian/muslim/jewish" God, he should have at least specified. Different religions and different Gods all have different messages. Lol. So he needs to pick a specific God to rebel against or he's in for one hell of a fight ;)

Meh, let's take them all!  If we play our cards right, half of them will wipe out the rest.  And then, when the victors are weakened, we strike!

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#8    StarMountainKid

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 04:21 PM

I think Ron's statement makes some sense. Think about how everyone had to live let's say before the 18th Century. What were the circumstances of their lives compared to us living now in the 21st Century? Did people suffer quite a bit?

It seems to me that all our modern conveniences that make our lives easier and more comfortable were invented by us, not by some God. God didn't seem to care that in the past there was sickness with no medical care, no sanitation, people lived under the divine right of kings, few laws to protect the peasants, which were most people, insufficient housing and food, etc., etc.

Even today, how many are living in the same kinds of conditions?

Can we blame God for all this (whatever God people believe in)? I think we can, as presumably God created all of this. I'd like to hear reasons why God is not responsible for our suffering.

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#9    GreenmansGod

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 04:42 PM

View PostRon Jeremy, on 21 July 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

Be moral. Be ethical. Be compassionate. Be considerate to fellow lifeforms. Be kind to the nature. Be altruistic and egalitarian. Don't be selfish and greedy.

Always act on moral ground. That's the ultimate rebellion against God, who created us to watch us suffer for entertainment.

Wisdom, Compassion, Liberalness, Abundance, Nonconformity, Learning, Idealism are the attributes of a Reformed Druid.  Looks like you are just about there.  So why, my friend, do you hang on to concept of the Abrahamic god as an entity separate from the Universe? To rebel against god there most be something to rebel against. In my point of view as a Pantheist to rebel against god is rebel against myself, To hate and be angry with god is to hate and be angry at myself. That doesn't really fly with idea of "Thou art God."  Self loathing only brings grief and the inability to change. I am not telling you what to believe or think, I am only saying give it some thought.  Everyone walks their own path no one can walk it for them.  Take a ride out away from the lights and look at the stars, who knows, you might end up seeing yourself looking back.

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#10    Phaeton80

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 04:45 PM

Quote

That's the ultimate rebellion against God, who created us to watch us suffer for entertainment.

Replace 'God' with 'mom & dad' and thats probably exactly what a little child would think after getting a good spanking and being told 'no telly for a week'.

This besides the obvious fact we create about 95%, if not more, of all suffering our very selves. Directly or indirectly.

Given we are free of wil, I think we should look in the mirror - at all levels - before blaming some 'one' else.


#11    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 05:00 PM

Who is saving who, is it god saving his people, or is it his people saving him?

Thomas Paine wrote in The Age of Reason that “Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous execution, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God."
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#12    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 05:08 PM

http://en.wikipedia....od_as_the_Devil

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the Word of God." - Thomas Paine

Thomas Paine wrote in The Age of Reason that “Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous execution, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God."
http://www.astrology...ead.php?t=81593
http://www.astrology...&pictureid=6177

#13    Etu Malku

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 05:09 PM

My understanding is that the Abrahamic god is simply the process of the objective universe.
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#14    Mikko-kun

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 06:20 PM

View PostRon Jeremy, on 21 July 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

Well, to me maltheism is a quite logical conclusion. :/

So you're saying our suffering is god-inflicted, not self-inflicted?

I was beaten to it, cheers Phaeton :)

I think you should ask yourself are you driftwoods or captains steering your own boat in this river we're all in, river of life. You can't change the flow, and most of us ain't able to make 90 degree turns so easily like you would in a water scooter, and those who have a water scooter dont carry much. Those with big ships filled with luxurous things sail slow and tend to be very clumsy, much less able to make changes to their course.
Metaphoras can ring true because physical world and the thoughtful side of the world, are linked. The same link is between our bodies and minds, but I believe it exists in all things, perhaps not to the same degree though. We all should have this thing which is higher than our body and mind. It's what we use to steer ourselves in the river of life. How we can switch our moods at will and act, but also become more genuine. I find it quite hard to put a word on it. Spirit, maybe. Is it because you dont like the idea of god and religions, or because you dont like anything you can't verify, or for what reason? Is a question you might want to ask yourself.

God, as I've understood, teaches in most mainstream religions that through how we live our lives we influence our fate in the afterlife. Think about that. That thought includes that we'd have a say on our fate. If you use the assumption of god existing a base for whatever your thought is, you ought to recognice the full scale of consequences of god existing to that thought of yours. Of course, you can assume the religious books got it wrong on god, but then, wouldn't you be disagreeing with them? Not saying this because you'd be more wrong, but I think you should keep this distinction in mind if you want to talk about their god, not about just any god.

Edited by Mikko-kun, 21 July 2013 - 06:41 PM.

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#15    redhen

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 07:41 PM

View PostRon Jeremy, on 21 July 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

Be moral. Be ethical. Be compassionate. Be considerate to fellow lifeforms. Be kind to the nature. Be altruistic and egalitarian. Don't be selfish and greedy.

Pai Chu-yi (772-846) was one of China's greatest poets and a devout Buddhist. Once when he visited a monastery he asked the abbot to tell him the most essential teaching of Buddhism. The abbot then recited the lines from the Dhammapada; "Commit no wrongs, perform good deeds, and let your thoughts be pure. Thus do all Buddhas teach.". This failed to impress the greatest poet of the age, who said "Every child of three summers knows these lines. I want to know the most profound teaching of the Buddha". The abbot replied "Every child of three summers knows these lines, but white-haired men of eighty still fail to put them in practice". Hearing this, the poet bowed low and returned home deep in thought"

- paraphrased from the Platform Sutra - the Zen teaching of Hui-Neng, by Bill Porter





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