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The ultimate rebellion against God


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#46    Arpee

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:59 AM

Obviously God is not Satan. We can see through out many religions that they are two different things. The real question is what IS God reall, and what IS Satan really?

"But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil." - Luke 6:35

#47    ambelamba

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:52 AM

I gotta say the same thing again.

Maltheism is more openly discussed among Koreans than Americans. Maybe it's has to do with social and cultural difference. I am just one of many Korean men who contemplates on a malevolent deity.

And, I decided to live with what I came to believe. What can I do, fight God? I came to realize that I should just live with the ugly reality, submitting to the entity that has the complete control of this planet.

EDIT: And when I decided to submit to the evil God, I finally found some inner peace.

Edited by Ron Jeremy, 24 July 2013 - 01:53 AM.


#48    Zaphod222

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 02:19 AM

View PostMikko-kun, on 23 July 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

Can you be sure it's just the indoctrination and not a part of yourself telling you there's something inadequate with pragmatism? If it was that kinda part of you which you didn't hear but was an active part of you, what then?

What does "pragmatism" have to do with anything here?? :huh:

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#49    Beany

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 05:32 AM

View PostR4z3rsPar4d0x, on 23 July 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

Why would god create a planet and people just to see them suffer, I mean it makes absolutely no sense to me

It doesn't make any sense, no question. So what if there is no God? What would another explanation be about suffering, then, that leaves God out of it? Bu then there's the suffering business, too. Not everyone suffers all the time, there's a lot of love & joy in the world. Who creates that? Any is there any reason why we should reasonably expect to live lives without hardship or to think it should all be easy?


#50    Zaphod222

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 05:39 AM

View PostBeany, on 24 July 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

It doesn't make any sense, no question. So what if there is no God? What would another explanation be about suffering, then, that leaves God out of it? Bu then there's the suffering business, too. Not everyone suffers all the time, there's a lot of love & joy in the world. Who creates that?

Why does there have to be a mystical creator?

I have difficulties understanding why exactly the religionists find it so hard to free themselves of that irrational assumption.

But it seems to be a real problem for a lot of people out there,

Edited by Zaphod222, 24 July 2013 - 05:40 AM.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." (Salman Rushdie)

#51    GreenmansGod

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 06:13 AM

View PostBeany, on 24 July 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

It doesn't make any sense, no question. So what if there is no God? What would another explanation be about suffering, then, that leaves God out of it? Bu then there's the suffering business, too. Not everyone suffers all the time, there's a lot of love & joy in the world. Who creates that? Any is there any reason why we should reasonably expect to live lives without hardship or to think it should all be easy?

We do.  We create love and joy. Love is a product of life. We also create a lot of suffering, too.  I guess in the end it is our choice which we create.

"The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost; for none now live who remember it."  Galadriel

#52    Mikko-kun

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 10:16 AM

View PostZaphod222, on 24 July 2013 - 02:19 AM, said:

What does "pragmatism" have to do with anything here?? :huh:

I think it's the core reason why christians themselves, one who swing to a more pragmatist side. Pragmatist = rely more on what you know, instead of according the possibilities you wouldn't know, this leads to relying more on taking the old than the new ways and the old way has been to obey leaders for christians, like if pope says go crusade and slice up some people, you go. You wouldn't do that if you would think of the other possibilities a bit more. A religious pragmatist may not be directly nor always like that, but I think pragmatism and that sort of dogmatism are connected. Of course, those who are pragmatists in the deeper sense of the word shouldn't be religious in the first place, those I encountered seem to be atheists. But back in the days you couldn't always choose that. And even these days, many people are born to have their parents or school or even the society enforce a worldview on them.

These days, those pragmatists who do stay in their religion, you could find them having a more literal sense on the bible for one. They either hold religion as something that's obviously true with arguments like "because bible exists, because all this is caused by god" or reject it. They're the ones you could probably convert easiest to atheism, because their mindset I think fits there more. Dont mean this as an insult, but if you think of it, ain't that a more natural place for them? Ultimatele pragmatist would think of this world as just a matrix like in the movie, if they could think the "what if"-way in the first place. The lack of this kind of thinking, I think it causes problems, because it's dogmatic. Without it you can't reform your ways so easily, unless pragmatist has a rule which tells them to rebel against status quo. Like in this case, dont know if mr. Jeremy's pragmatist though, doesn't sound like one. But his take on the subject does, even if it's in favor of a religion.

What's the opposite of pragmatism? To be able to think multiple possibilities for why things are the way they are, and for how things can develop or can be. To be able to bend and continue your conjencture process from the point where you just observe reality, to keep things going on from there.

Wherever there's a problem, there's solutions.
Answers are found from a wide deep perspective, from opened mind's eyes.
From where good and bad stay silent and you hear the real cause and effect, and big picture.
Giving up is wasting your time, but also necessary to find the true cause you didn't find yet.
Staying in the path is necessary only when there's trueness in that path.

#53    Zaphod222

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 10:35 AM

View PostMikko-kun, on 24 July 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

I think it's the core reason why christians themselves, one who swing to a more pragmatist side. Pragmatist = rely more on what you know, instead of according the possibilities you wouldn't know,

That`s not the definition of pragmatism.
You are on a wild goose chase there.

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#54    Mikko-kun

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 10:55 AM

Dont think so, but I still did use a wrong word. Mixed pragmatism with the thing when you believe only what you see, existentialism? I guess there might be no fine word for believing only what you see.

Wherever there's a problem, there's solutions.
Answers are found from a wide deep perspective, from opened mind's eyes.
From where good and bad stay silent and you hear the real cause and effect, and big picture.
Giving up is wasting your time, but also necessary to find the true cause you didn't find yet.
Staying in the path is necessary only when there's trueness in that path.

#55    scowl

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 04:07 PM

View PostZaphod222, on 24 July 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

Why does there have to be a mystical creator?

I have difficulties understanding why exactly the religionists find it so hard to free themselves of that irrational assumption.

The Bible says there is.

And I agree with Mr. Jeremy: the Old Testament made it perfectly clear to me that God created man purely for His entertainment.


#56    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 04:30 PM

Did anyone stop and think, maybe this "god" is nothing more than pathological lying cult leader whose definition of creation of the world was nothing more than building say a temple, and calling it the world?

Edited by Mystic Crusader, 24 July 2013 - 04:33 PM.

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#57    ReaperS_ParadoX

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 05:49 PM

I don't even know what god this guys talking about, but its not my god, my god doesn't feed off of peoples tears, my god doesn't enjoy seeing people suffer.  I think he just wants somebody to blame for the way the world is and is using god as a crutch when its really human nature that's to blame. But hey once the brain believes something is a fact its very hard to change that brains thinking.

Edited by R4z3rsPar4d0x, 24 July 2013 - 05:51 PM.

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#58    Zaphod222

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 06:35 PM

View PostR4z3rsPar4d0x, on 24 July 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

I don't even know what god this guys talking about, but its not my god, my god doesn't feed off of peoples tears, my god doesn't enjoy seeing people suffer.  I think he just wants somebody to blame for the way the world is and is using god as a crutch when its really human nature that's to blame. But hey once the brain believes something is a fact its very hard to change that brains thinking.

My Spaghetti Monster is better than your Spaghetti Monster!

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#59    Zaphod222

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 06:37 PM

View Postscowl, on 24 July 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

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The Bible says there is.

But that is circular logic! A book is true because it says it is true?
Come on.
That does not answer the question.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." (Salman Rushdie)

#60    ambelamba

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 06:49 PM

View PostR4z3rsPar4d0x, on 24 July 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

I don't even know what god this guys talking about, but its not my god, my god doesn't feed off of peoples tears, my god doesn't enjoy seeing people suffer.  I think he just wants somebody to blame for the way the world is and is using god as a crutch when its really human nature that's to blame. But hey once the brain believes something is a fact its very hard to change that brains thinking.

Doesn't that also apply to your dear belief? :huh:





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