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Citizen of Israel vs Nazi Checkpoint


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#496    Yamato

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:09 AM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 01 August 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

Rights for everyone BUT those who work for the government
Your job doesn't confer you your rights.   If a government employee was getting hung up at a checkpoint, I would expect them to have the same rights. I'll let you do your own DD if you wish.  And if not, and you still can't understand, I don't care to help you try anymore.

We shouldn't have to show papers simply because we exist.  Everybody's got to exist somewhere.  That is no reason for suspicion.  If the feds must have interior checkpoints 100 miles deep built willy nilly over the states' jurisdiction and sovereignty, where's the limit?    How far into our land is too far?  

I should love our Canadian friends posting in this discussion so vehemently, with not a checkpoint in sight in their great white northern interior.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#497    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:12 AM

View PostYamato, on 01 August 2013 - 10:24 PM, said:

Not only shouldn't but government doesn't have rights, government has powers.   The essence of all government is force control.   Leave those kids alone.   "Doing their job" is just so Nuremberg of an excuse.
Godwin fail (II). And this time you can't say it was in the video.
Although this

Quote

And that is frankly absurd.
​is certainly true.

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#498    Yamato

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:19 AM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 02 August 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

Godwin fail (II). And this time you can't say it was in the video.
Although this

​is certainly true.

Justice Washington:  "The inquiry is, what are the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states? We feel no hesitation in confining these expressions to those privileges and immunities which are, in their nature, fundamental; which belong, of right, to the citizens of all free governments; and which have, at all times, been enjoyed by the citizens of the several states which compose this Union, from the time of their becoming free, independent, and sovereign. What these fundamental principles are, it would perhaps be more tedious than difficult to enumerate. They may, however, be all comprehended under the following general heads: Protection by the government; the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the right to acquire and possess property of every kind, and to pursue and obtain happiness and safety; subject nevertheless to such restraints as the government may justly prescribe for the general good of the whole.

The right of a citizen of one state to pass through, or to reside in any other state, for purposes of trade, agriculture, professional pursuits, or otherwise; to claim the benefit of the writ of habeas corpus; to institute and maintain actions of any kind in the courts of the state; to take, hold and dispose of property, either real or personal; and an exemption from higher taxes or impositions than are paid by the other citizens of the state; may be mentioned as some of the particular privileges and immunities of citizens, which are clearly embraced by the general description of privileges deemed to be fundamental: to which may be added, the elective franchise, as regulated and established by the laws or constitution of the state in which it is to be exercised. These, and many others which might be mentioned, are, strictly speaking, privileges and immunities, and the enjoyment of them by the citizens of each state, in every other state, was manifestly calculated (to use the expressions of the preamble of the corresponding provision in the old articles of confederation) "the better to secure and perpetuate mutual friendship and intercourse among the people of the different states of the Union."   --Corfield v. Coryell

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#499    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:26 AM

And that has to do with your perpetual use of the word 'Nazi' in in appropriate circumstances? If those cops had been Nazis, if they had found someone claiming to be a 'citizen of Israel' they'd have taken him into custody and he'd be on the way to Auschwitz or Treblinka as we speak.

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#500    Yamato

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:51 AM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 02 August 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

And that has to do with your perpetual use of the word 'Nazi' in in appropriate circumstances? If those cops had been Nazis, if they had found someone claiming to be a 'citizen of Israel' they'd have taken him into custody and he'd be on the way to Auschwitz or Treblinka as we speak.
When it's an illegal alien's life or death, it can't be Nazi because they're decreed by the federal government to be here illegally?  

Yes that's what Nazi means to me.  Stepping on the sovereignty of the states and the rights of the people, violating the Constitution and our rule of law.   It should be the States' prerogative to determine how to catch illegals in the interior.   If they decide upon their own investigation that deporting some of these people back to Mexico could mean a death sentence, they can consider other options such as amnesty.   Somehow the States can handle all manner of complex legal cases in their jurisdiction, they just can't hire their own checkpoint guards??  

Maybe the reason the border doesn't get secured is because "the Mexicans do the work that Americans won't do"?    This is a dramatic and infamous issue in this country going back many decades.   Hundreds of migrants die every year braving the border and the reason they do it is because they know they can get across.   You have no idea how desperate these people are.    And they're the political football on this issue.  It's <100 miles inside our borders that makes the difference?    If 100 miles is good maybe 150 is better.  Maybe 200 is alright.   Where does it stop?    Where are the limits?   What authority do the limits come from?    It's easy to see from the Constitution and the USSC that the checkpoints are unconstitutional and therefore illegal.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#501    FLOMBIE

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 08:16 AM

That is not what Nazi means. You misuse a destinct term for shock value.


#502    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 08:23 AM

View PostYamato, on 02 August 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

When it's an illegal alien's life or death, it can't be Nazi because they're decreed by the federal government to be here illegally?  

Yes that's what Nazi means to me.  Stepping on the sovereignty of the states and the rights of the people, violating the Constitution and our rule of law.  
So the US. Border patrol are planning on exterminating the Jewish race and establishing an empire across Europe to provide themselves, the master race, with Lebensraum? That's what Nazi means to me. When you see the U.S. federal government beginning to do that, you might have an argument.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#503    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 08:27 AM

Questioning whether this is an effective method of guarding against illegal Immingrants is an entirely fair argument. it's the misuse of rhetorical terms, and the reliance on someone who everyone seems to agree is an irritating clown, that reduces the effectiveness of the argument, though. I think that's why you've had difficulty convincing people of the strength of your argument.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#504    Yamato

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 08:39 AM

View PostFLOMBIE, on 02 August 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

That is not what Nazi means. You misuse a destinct term for shock value.
I know the First Amendment to the US Constitution is a tough one, but there's all kinds of ways to use the term.   For instance here's another - the US government stinks of Mussolini's fascism, something I remember the Nazis were quite fond of.   If that has shock value and we find it surprising then good.

Bottom line, there's no reason to tolerate unlawful checkpoints.   If checkpoints were effective at their intended role, the States can handle it.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#505    Yamato

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 08:41 AM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 02 August 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

Questioning whether this is an effective method of guarding against illegal Immingrants is an entirely fair argument. it's the misuse of rhetorical terms, and the reliance on someone who everyone seems to agree is an irritating clown, that reduces the effectiveness of the argument, though. I think that's why you've had difficulty convincing people of the strength of your argument.
Stop making up stories about "everyone".   The thousands of votes on Youtube shows the grandest proof of what the real breakdown is on what "everyone" really thinks.

You can keep repeating that he's an irritating clown, I don't know what difference it's going to make.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#506    FLOMBIE

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 08:41 AM

View PostYamato, on 02 August 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

I know the First Amendment to the US Constitution is a tough one, but there's all kinds of ways to use the term.   For instance here's another - the US government stinks of Mussolini's fascism, something I remember the Nazis were quite fond of.   If that has shock value and we find it surprising then good.

Bottom line, there's no reason to tolerate unlawful checkpoints.   If checkpoints were effective at their intended role, the States can handle it.
Mussolini was fond of the Nazis, bro. You have no idea what you are talking about. Especially not costitutional law.


#507    Yamato

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 08:43 AM

View PostFLOMBIE, on 02 August 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

Mussolini was fond of the Nazis, bro. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

Quote

Especially not costitutional law.
Enlighten me.  What am I missing?

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#508    FLOMBIE

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 08:46 AM

View PostYamato, on 02 August 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.


Enlighten me.  What am I missing?
Read up on history.

And you tell me what I would be missing, since you constantly say that I could not comprehend it. You are twisting your own constitutuional laws all the time. You cannot even comprehend what the "right to silence" really stands for.

Edit: Pardon me, I think you could, but you don't want to.

Edited by FLOMBIE, 02 August 2013 - 08:47 AM.


#509    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 08:48 AM

View PostYamato, on 02 August 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

Stop making up stories about "everyone".   The thousands of votes on Youtube shows the grandest proof of what the real breakdown is on what "everyone" really thinks.

You can keep repeating that he's an irritating clown, I don't know what difference it's going to make.
Democracy according to how popular something is on Youtube. That sets an encouraging precedent for the future of civilisation.
it's not just me that keeps repeating that he's an irritating clown, nearly everyone seems to agree.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#510    FLOMBIE

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 08:48 AM

You should try to use destinct terms correctly. Then we all could take you more seriously.





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