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Citizen of Israel vs Nazi Checkpoint


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#541    Yamato

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 10:39 PM

View PostMikko-kun, on 02 August 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

Yes.
The reason they had to ask him more questions had nothing to do with why they suspected him to pull him over in the first place, because they had no reason to suspect him of anything to pull him over in the first place.   "It's a checkpoint" doesn't excuse that, when the checkpoint IS that.  

It all came from the premeditated assertion of his rights in this case referring to his Biblical ties to Israel.   These goons and their IQ problems should be checked. they should be confused, they should be asked questions that leave their jaws hanging open, the recipients of their unconstitutional policies should exercise their rights.   The principle goes beyond whatever little tidbits someone finds disagreeable about the minutia in the video.  If there were a million videos they'd have a million differences that make them all unique, and the rights people enjoy under the rule of law will remain.

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 02 August 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

Indeed, I've often said that a lot of people seem to tend to see the Constitution and all that as like holy texts, which it would be sacrilege to dare to suggest that perhaps what applied 200 years ago or more may not be entirely appropriate now, and that even those precious Amendments admitted as much, but even they (and this is the ironic bit) are regarded as holy texts themselves, and can never be amended themselves, nor dare anyone suggest that they might be outdated themselves now.
Don't like it?   Amend it.  It's been amended before.  Are we now supposed to shirk the rule of law entirely and not even acknowledge the Constitution anymore when we decide how our government is supposed to treat us?   That's the implication you've been making here ever since you showed up and from an American standpoint, it's disgusting.   Full of complaints, name-calling, extracurricular rhetoric that misses the point, and not a shred of respect for the US Constitution.   Wherever you actually live, whether it's Leningrad written in Russian as you've had on your profile before or somewhere else, you owe a lot of gratitude to the US Constitution and the wave of freedom that has swept over Europe in the past few centuries whether you know it or not.   Maybe you find Communism more palatable than freedom perhaps?   The old Soviet Union do it for you?  

I could just have easily put "Soviet Checkpoint" in the subject line and it would have been just as accurate.   Getting you back to the big picture:  This is liberty vs. tyranny.  On the front line, civilly, constitutionally and non-violently exercised.

Edited by Yamato, 09 August 2013 - 10:55 PM.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#542    Yamato

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 11:08 PM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 02 August 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

if he said he was a citizen of Israel, then it would be incumbent on him to demonstrate that he had official permission to be in the U.S. So by telling them that, for purposes of being a smart Alec, he gave them a perfect right to request him to pull over so they could check that.
If an agent is too dumb to understand the difference between the Biblical Israel and the "sovereign state of Israel" that's a lousy reason for the motorist to give up their rights.  

Based on the agents own responses, their job gives them "the perfect right" to pull people for whatever reason they want.   They don't even need a reason to suspect someone if they're too stupid to even provide one when asked.

He was stopped already.  To imply that he wasn't stopped is not only in blind denial of the video, it also implies that when you're stopped and an agent walks over and starts asking you questions, you can just hit the gas pedal and continue on your way!   That is not true.  

Let's get back to the law here and understand the rule of law through the combinations and permutations we're needlessly introducing here:  While agents can (and will) stop you; you don't have to answer their questions.  Capish?

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#543    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 06:56 AM

View PostYamato, on 09 August 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:

If an agent is too dumb to understand the difference between the Biblical Israel and the "sovereign state of Israel" that's a lousy reason for the motorist to give up their rights.  

I really do think you're just trying sophistry to try to pretend that any Low enforcement agent should be expected to know that a "Citizen of Israel" is an abstruse biblical reference.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

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#544    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 06:58 AM

but thanks for this compliment.
" Full of complaints, name-calling, extracurricular rhetoric that misses the point, and not a shred of respect for the US Constitution."
If I had room I'd put in in my profile thimgumijig.
i think it pretty much proves just what I was saying about the reaction if one dares to question someone's holy text. It immediately becomes personal.

Edited by Colonel Rhuairidh, 10 August 2013 - 07:03 AM.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

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#545    Yamato

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:53 PM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 10 August 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

I really do think you're just trying sophistry to try to pretend that any Low enforcement agent should be expected to know that a "Citizen of Israel" is an abstruse biblical reference.
Small potatoes to the big picture.  We can have no Constitution-free zones in this country.  

An American isn't a suspect just because he drove too close to Canada wtf.   Or got too close to the brown people God forbid.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#546    Yamato

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 07:27 AM

I posted videos of immigration checkpoints and instead of just making Christian comments with the anti-Constitutional goons -which is better treatment than they deserve- I should have included the dictionary definition of the word Immigration.  

Not only is it blatantly illegal for the govt to do this, it's past absurd that driving in a car a hundred miles from the border is equivalent to the suspicion of immigrating.   I don't know what the laws are in other countries but in the US, just because you have a badge, you cannot just come up to an American for whatever or no reason and ask them for their papers.  It doesn't matter what we call it, and it doesn't matter if Anderson is an idiot for playing these guards like a violin either.

In the US the legal presumption needs to be that law enforcement assume we're all Americans - unless they have a credible reason not to.

"Your car is dirty." is not a credible reason.  

Crossing the border is a credible reason.   Immigration.

If I'm at the border and some guy with a patch on his shirt says he needs to check some ID for an immigration checkpoint I would say "Of course you are" and hand him my ID.  

Making a contemporary accurate reference to Israel, I don't want the US to look like Israel.  With fences and checkpoints and barriers to entry of all kinds.    Unless everyone is happy we're the United States of Imprisonment, and prefer to continue to provide clown entertainment, especially to Europeans who love to dole out the "land of the free" jokes.  

One brave individual decides to stand up and do something about it and a five alarm fire breaks out.  Really?

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#547    Thanato

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 11:20 AM

But Yamato not once did they ask to see his 'papers' they asked if he was American. They were going to take his word but he decided to be a dick and lie. He said he was from Israel, which despite the fact he is a religious man they have to take as 'he is israeli.' They let him go without charge or detention. They just decided he wasn't worth the trouble even though they were well with in their authority to detain him.

He was just being a dick for the fun of it plain and simple.

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#548    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 01:35 PM

Whyever has this been brought up yet again?

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#549    Yamato

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 06:19 PM

View PostThanato, on 19 October 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

But Yamato not once did they ask to see his 'papers' they asked if he was American. They were going to take his word but he decided to be a dick and lie. He said he was from Israel, which despite the fact he is a religious man they have to take as 'he is israeli.' They let him go without charge or detention. They just decided he wasn't worth the trouble even though they were well with in their authority to detain him.

He was just being a dick for the fun of it plain and simple.
Oh how do you know they were going to take his word?   Do you have any video evidence of this at other checkpoints?   Do you have any evidence at all?   Present it here, please.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#550    Yamato

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 06:23 PM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 19 October 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

Whyever has this been brought up yet again?
Because fighting the trend that's turning the US into a country of goddamned prison cells, fences and checkpoints is a very frigging important thing to do.   Why don't you ask that question of "Guns Save Lives Thread" from freaking March.

What the hell are Americans going to put up with after the next 9/11 terrorist attack?   How far down on our hands and knees for this **** of a foreign policy do we need to get, before you get the point?

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#551    and then

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 06:32 PM

View PostYamato, on 23 July 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

It doesn't matter.  Driving isn't a cause for reasonable suspicion that a cop needs to pull you over and stop you.

And you're just parroting the nonsense again that somehow people don't have the right to remain silent.  You can't get arrested for remaining silent or not answering questions.   If you do, you've got a huge civil suit ready in the wings.
That is a state by state call.  The law in my state is that you must provide  id when it is requested by law enforcement.  Technically I doubt one would be arrested if you didn't -if it was just some idiot being an idiot and trying to hassle you.  But if you were truly a suspect then it could be done.  Beyond providing id you have no compulsion to say another word though :)

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#552    Yamato

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 06:45 PM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 10 August 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

but thanks for this compliment.
" Full of complaints, name-calling, extracurricular rhetoric that misses the point, and not a shred of respect for the US Constitution."
If I had room I'd put in in my profile thimgumijig.
i think it pretty much proves just what I was saying about the reaction if one dares to question someone's holy text. It immediately becomes personal.
With all due respect, it does affect my life personally, and not yours.  So you have me at a real disadvantage if you also don't let me play it true.

You use the "holy text" line, but I've never used those words or those meanings in what I really think and believe.

Please tell me what is the problem with other people defending their rights?   Is it just the Christian-stuff again?  If so, then you have nothing new to add to this discussion, but quite unfortunately I did.

There's a million ways to refuse an immigration checkpoint, Col Rhu.   Christian jedi mind tricks are only one of em.   If you can't think of any good reasons to refuse a checkpoint, I don't know what else to say to you.  :(

But if you can think of a better script for refusing an immigration checkpoint, let's hear it!   I would love that.

View Postand then, on 19 October 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

That is a state by state call.  The law in my state is that you must provide  id when it is requested by law enforcement.  Technically I doubt one would be arrested if you didn't -if it was just some idiot being an idiot and trying to hassle you.  But if you were truly a suspect then it could be done.  Beyond providing id you have no compulsion to say another word though :)
Can you send me a link to that law please?   I'd like to read it, thanks.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#553    Yamato

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 06:52 PM

View PostThanato, on 19 October 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

But Yamato not once did they ask to see his 'papers' they asked if he was American. They were going to take his word but he decided to be a dick and lie. He said he was from Israel, which despite the fact he is a religious man they have to take as 'he is israeli.' They let him go without charge or detention. They just decided he wasn't worth the trouble even though they were well with in their authority to detain him.

He was just being a dick for the fun of it plain and simple.
And almost everywhere cops are being d**** for the opposite reason.   And getting away with it.   Laws must have limits, and the limits must be tested to know where they are.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#554    Kowalski

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 06:57 PM

View PostYamato, on 19 October 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

There's a million ways to refuse an immigration checkpoint, Col Rhu.   Christian jedi mind tricks are only one of em.   If you can't think of any good reasons to refuse a checkpoint, I don't know what else to say to you.  :(


Yeah, Jedi Mind tricks work, but this works much better.... :yes:

Link: http://m.youtube.com...er_embedded#t=0

:)

Edited by Kowalski, 19 October 2013 - 06:59 PM.


#555    and then

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 07:11 PM

View PostYamato, on 19 October 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

With all due respect, it does affect my life personally, and not yours.  So you have me at a real disadvantage if you also don't let me play it true.

You use the "holy text" line, but I've never used those words or those meanings in what I really think and believe.

Please tell me what is the problem with other people defending their rights?   Is it just the Christian-stuff again?  If so, then you have nothing new to add to this discussion, but quite unfortunately I did.

There's a million ways to refuse an immigration checkpoint, Col Rhu.   Christian jedi mind tricks are only one of em.   If you can't think of any good reasons to refuse a checkpoint, I don't know what else to say to you.  :(

But if you can think of a better script for refusing an immigration checkpoint, let's hear it!   I would love that.


Can you send me a link to that law please?   I'd like to read it, thanks.
http://law.justia.co...14/15-5-30.html
No arrest must be made to validate the requirement so "reasonable suspicion" is pretty much whatever they say it is.

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  for what could be, the darkest age...




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