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Competition v's Cooperation.

human nature evolution

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Poll: Competition v's Cooperation. (28 member(s) have cast votes)

What is more important to you?

  1. Competition. (1 votes [3.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.57%

  2. Cooperation. (13 votes [46.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 46.43%

  3. Neither. (4 votes [14.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.29%

  4. Both. (10 votes [35.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.71%

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#1    Professor T

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 09:10 AM

What is more important to you... Competition or Cooperation?

It seems to me that competition is has been built into human nature, we compete for resources, food, mates, social standing, power, you name it, we compete for it.. And yet we are a species that can, could, and should spend our energies towards cooperative goals, helping each and every one of us to create a world that serves everyone equally, and not just for the sake of propping up one group of individuals, or one nation over others...

Competition and Cooperation are two natures within all of us, but it seems to me that we've built this world on the spirit or premiss of competition, and cooperation has been largely ignored in the systems we have in place today.. We compete against neighbor, workmate, schoolmate and nation... We compete against friend, family, brothers and even beliefs... I don't see much cooperation in the world unless it's in the form of Allies v's foe..

And yet we are capable of Cooperation...

Why is that?
What's gone wrong?
When did the nature of competition overthrow the nature of cooperation?
Can balance be brought between these two natures? and how?


#2    Phaeton80

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 09:26 AM

Good post, interesting topic. I think competition is illogical, primitive (infantile), counterproductive, (eventually) self destructive.


Competition:
Posted Image


Cooperation:
Posted Image


#3    GreenmansGod

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 11:08 AM

Human beings live in social groups and that requires cooperation in the group and with other groups. I think cooperation is the adaptive behavior that has brought us out of trees to the computer age.  We compete within groups and with other groups but the without cooperation competition is mote.  Even in a football team if there isn't group cooperation then your team is not going to win. Competition is overrated.

Edited by Darkwind, 28 July 2013 - 11:09 AM.

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#4    Professor T

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:42 PM

Even group cooperation falls apart because of competitive behavior.  How often do we hear that the band is breaking up, or there's another marriage failure.. Within teams we hear the terms in-fighting, or power struggle..

IMO, this is important because I kind of perceive a very large imbalance in society where Competition is destroying cooperation from within.. If that happens, well, I'd hate to think what the future will be like..


#5    White Crane Feather

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 07:11 PM

Cooperation is a higher concept requiring more than one person to forgo a Immediate benefits for greater future benefits. This requires an expansion of ego to encompass another. It can be done. But even most people that are cooperating are actually doing it to be more competitive. They feel that it benefits them more and therefore is adventagious.

Most people don't understand that our economic system that is based upon competitive markets is not a choice or a philosophy. It is a description. Economics  through research and peer review makes discoveries of statistically significant truths  and describes how people actually behave. Then policy is SUPPOSED to based on empirical research and market reactions to certain kinds of centralized decisions.

I get eternally irritated  when people blaim competitive activity for our ills. For one its completely impossible. Even cooperation is actually competitive activity. Without it nothing, and I mean nothing would be accomplished.

Capitalism is often crtisized for our problems, but true capitalism is not even followed. In fact it's the socialistic aspects of 'capitalistic' systems that are usually the center if problems.

Rant over :)

Edited by Seeker79, 28 July 2013 - 07:13 PM.

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#6    Professor T

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 06:09 AM

 White Crane Feather, on 28 July 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

Cooperation is a higher concept requiring more than one person to forgo a Immediate benefits for greater future benefits. This requires an expansion of ego to encompass another. It can be done. But even most people that are cooperating are actually doing it to be more competitive. They feel that it benefits them more and therefore is adventagious.

I get eternally irritated  when people blaim competitive activity for our ills. For one its completely impossible. Even cooperation is actually competitive activity. Without it nothing, and I mean nothing would be accomplished.

Hmmmmmm, :o You might have good a point... but I can't quite get my head around it..

Do you not think that there is currently an unhealthy imbalance between Competition or Cooperation?

How is Cooperation actually a competitive activity?


#7    Asadora

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:15 PM

In some situations involving praise, it can be said that cooperation can be considered a competitive activity. It only takes one person in a group to want that praise for being cooperative to such a level that it is a competitive sport to them.

'Yes, I helped Tom with that. I also helped Becca with her project. Dale and Joe got back to me on last week's project but it was me that told them it wasn't complete. Also, last week, I went around to all the senior offices and gathered the documents that our group needed. So, now let us go through these documents together. When we are done I'll stay behind and combine these documents for us.'

Okay, perhaps the above situation is a bit far fetched... maybe... however, hopefully it demonstrates my previous point.

Great thread, OP! :tu:

"From time to time there appear on the face of the earth men of rare and consummate excellence, who dazzle us by their virtue, and whose outstanding qualities shed a stupendous light. Like those extraordinary stars of whose origins we are ignorant, and of whose fate, once they have vanished, we know even less, such men have neither forebears nor descendants: they are the whole of their race."  -- Jean de la Bruyere 1645-1696.

#8    Br Cornelius

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 01:52 PM

Cooperation is the unacknowledged master of human endeavour. it follows nature which is also predominantly based upon synergistic relationships between elements. Life itself and multicellular species are the ultimate expression of cooperation over competition. When competition (cancer) takes over we generally die. These are all essential natural lessons which should guide us.
Competition is the desire to better yourself without concern for those around you, the cooperative movement demonstrates that anything a competitive corporation can achieve can equally be achieved by mutual consent and cooperation - but with superior outcomes for the majority of participants.

The importance of cooperation is under reported in this world of sociopaths and psycopathic leaders and CEO's.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 29 July 2013 - 02:03 PM.

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#9    GreenmansGod

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 03:09 PM

 White Crane Feather, on 28 July 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

Cooperation is a higher concept requiring more than one person to forgo a Immediate benefits for greater future benefits. This requires an expansion of ego to encompass another. It can be done. But even most people that are cooperating are actually doing it to be more competitive. They feel that it benefits them more and therefore is adventagious.

Most people don't understand that our economic system that is based upon competitive markets is not a choice or a philosophy. It is a description. Economics  through research and peer review makes discoveries of statistically significant truths  and describes how people actually behave. Then policy is SUPPOSED to based on empirical research and market reactions to certain kinds of centralized decisions.

I get eternally irritated  when people blaim competitive activity for our ills. For one its completely impossible. Even cooperation is actually competitive activity. Without it nothing, and I mean nothing would be accomplished.

Capitalism is often crtisized for our problems, but true capitalism is not even followed. In fact it's the socialistic aspects of 'capitalistic' systems that are usually the center if problems.

Rant over :)

I think there is a lessen to be learn from the robber barons of the 19th century, pure capitalism breeds corruption as much as pure socialism. There is a balance between the two that can be struck, to protect average  folks from being taken advantage of.  Labor Unions came about because people got tired of being riped off and sometimes killed because of unscrupulous corporations and businesses who thought people's lives were expendable to the bottom line. When people complain about regulations and I always remember canned meat got its start as a way to make money out of the scrapings off the floor of the big slaughter factories of the mid-west. Yummy   Some people will do anything for a buck.  Read "The Jungle" by Sinclair, it was a work of fiction based on the truth of what was going on before unions and "social programs."

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#10    Professor T

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 05:27 AM

Thanks Guys..
But I'm still struggling to get my head around the premiss that Cooperative behavior is Competitive..

I'm thinking now of people who volunteer their time/energy into community based projects, food banks, shelters soup kitchens ect... They get together and cooperate for the benefit of a few and their community as a whole.. This is not competitive by any stretch of the imagination, unless you take into account certain groups who use their actions to promote their social or religious views.. (advertising)

I can understand that folk who do this and flaunt their "charity work" for kudos and brownie points are I guess, fishing for social prestige.. But I can't see how that is competitive in all but a few cases.. I know a lot of people who donate time & money without thought for praise or advertising of self or organization. I've met and know a few people who work in my community for the benefit of the down trodden.. They don't do it for praise.. They do it because they've been there and know what its like, or simply because they want to live in a better society.. I guess there is something missing here in understanding?

On the one hand, competition is great for advancing, but in this day and age It seems to lack any form of compassion.. maybe it's just me, but I do perceive a huge disparity between competition & cooperation.. Perhaps the apparent lack of compassion in the rules and laws we have today are a cause of it?  I dunno.. Maybe that's what it is? Competitive behavior lacks compassion...


#11    Br Cornelius

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 09:23 AM

Professor T, cooperation as competition is a ruse though up by the social darwinists, anything which boost survivability is considered as offering competitive advantage in evolutionary terms. Social Darwinism is a dubious concept, a b****** child of evolutionary thinking and capitalist economics. I wouldn't consider it a hard science and I wouldn't pay much attention to the notion that cooperation is covert competition.

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#12    shrooma

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 04:06 PM

no cooperation- no men on the moon.
no cooperation- no big science.
no cooperation- no charities.
no cooperation- no engineering.
no cooperation- no conservation.
no cooperation- no protests.
no cooperation- no food.
no cooperation- no civilisation.
there are many forms of cooperation that go unnoticed, or unthought of, but without them, our world would collapse.
there's much more of it going on than we realise, but it's not really reported because the media standard seems to be 'if it bleeds, it leads'
people would rather hear about the latest car-bomb casualties that some guy who helped an old dear across the road.
altruism's alive & kicking; it just doesn't like to brag about itself like competition does.....
;-)

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#13    scowl

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 05:32 PM

 shrooma, on 30 July 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

no cooperation- no men on the moon.

No competition from the Soviet space program: no men on the Moon.

People talk about these two things like it's one or the other. Many things in life are a subtle combination of both. For example, my job is cooperating with my fellow employees so our company will produce good products but at the same time we're competing with each other for promotions, raises, and for our ideas to be selected for new products.


#14    Br Cornelius

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 06:48 PM

The point is that it is an ideologically driven idea to say that all life is competitive - it is justification for a largely disfunctional social order. The competitive parasitize on the cooperative foundations of society externalizing their costs and grabbing as much social capitol to create their profits.

Competition is far to idolized in this world of ours.

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#15    spartan max2

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 06:56 PM

Im a little surprised that more people did not vote for both. They are two sides of the same coin. You can compete and cooperate at the same time.

I know most people these days looks at competition as some evil selfish entity. But competition leads to a lot of progress, for example how world records get broke in the Olympics each year. Because everyone is trying to top the record the record keeps improving.

The same goes for technological progress.

Competition is not inherently a bad thing, it becomes a bad thing when you decide to damage or eliminate your competition to achieve your goals.

Edited by spartan max2, 30 July 2013 - 06:57 PM.

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