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Defund Obamacare


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#1    Kowalski

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 09:27 PM

I saw this today:

Sen. Ted Cruz launches New effort to defund Obamacare

http://video.foxnews...d=2114913880001

Apparently, there are two different websites, that have a petition going to defund Obamacare.

Link: *snip*

This one has 48,423 signatures so far.

Another website is: *snip*

So far it has 551, 596 signatures...Wow!

Note, that I am not asking anyone to sign either of these petitions, just making sure people are aware that these petitions exist. I know people who are very scared right now, because of this. People shouldn't be forced to have health insurance. Especially when they can't afford it....

Edited by Daughter of the Nine Moons, 29 July 2013 - 11:00 PM.
Removed link to offsite petition - 1e. Participation requests: Do not ask members to take part in offsite surveys, petitions, contests, campaigns or fundraisers.


#2    kannin

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 09:45 PM

View PostKowalski, on 29 July 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

I saw this today:

Sen. Ted Cruz launches New effort to defund Obamacare

http://video.foxnews...d=2114913880001

Apparently, there are two different websites, that have a petition going to defund Obamacare.

Link: *snip*

This one has 48,423 signatures so far.

Another website is: *snip*

So far it has 551, 596 signatures...Wow!

Note, that I am not asking anyone to sign either of these petitions, just making sure people are aware that these petitions exist. I know people who are very scared right now, because of this. People shouldn't be forced to have health insurance. Especially when they can't afford it....
its things like this that make me very happy to be canadian no offence

Edited by Daughter of the Nine Moons, 29 July 2013 - 11:01 PM.
edit quote

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#3    questionmark

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 10:36 PM

View PostKowalski, on 29 July 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

Especially when they can't afford it....

I don't know where that crap comes from, ever heard of the Affordable Health Care Act?

Three years of Obamacare and people have yet to learn the basics.

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#4    Daughter of the Nine Moons

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 11:04 PM

I have removed the links to the petitions as even posting them falls under the following rule and can be construed as agenda posting
  • 1e. Participation requests: Do not ask members to take part in offsite surveys, petitions, contests, campaigns or fundraisers.


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#5    and then

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 01:05 AM

  • If the Republicans attempt to shut down the government in an attempt to defund this monstrosity they will probably be beaten in 2014 like a rented mule...


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#6    Frank Merton

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 02:07 AM

I got a feelinng Obama is better off if his boondoggle is stopped.  Medical care in the States is too expensive now and going down in quality.  This will continue regardless of Obamacare until the lawyers are reigned in and serious end-of-life (a difficult issue) decisions are imposed.  So if his program is defeated he can blame the defeat for the conntinued problems.


#7    F3SS

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 02:37 AM

Ted Cruz is the man.

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#8    Stardrive

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 03:28 AM

View Postquestionmark, on 29 July 2013 - 10:36 PM, said:

I don't know where that crap comes from, ever heard of the Affordable Health Care Act?
It's another oxymoron, like 'SmartPhone'. Yeah the roof is leaking and needs to be fixed. But the worse time to try and fix a leaky roof is when there's a storm outside.

Quote

Three years of Obamacare and people have yet to learn the basics.
Just because we don't like it doesn't mean we don't "get it".

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#9    and then

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 05:25 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 30 July 2013 - 02:07 AM, said:

I got a feelinng Obama is better off if his boondoggle is stopped.  Medical care in the States is too expensive now and going down in quality.  This will continue regardless of Obamacare until the lawyers are reigned in and serious end-of-life (a difficult issue) decisions are imposed.  So if his program is defeated he can blame the defeat for the conntinued problems.
I agree.  Our system is profit oriented - as is everything in the US - and with medicine it is unseemly, I believe.  People should not be allowed to live or die based solely on their income.  Having said that, a free market system has made American healthcare the best until recently.  A happy medium could be found if litigation was stopped except in the most egregious cases of stupidity.  Also a plan should be devised by the medical professionals that prioritizes who should receive the most intensive assistance.  An 87 year old with cancer should not be receiving half a dozen MRI or CT exams and 2 months in a hospital that the taxpayers are going to have to cover.  A teen?  Absolutely, regardless of income.  A terminal patient should be treated aggressively for an initial round of radiation or chemo.  If they respond, perhaps a second round.  Beyond that they should be receiving end of life care.   Pain management should be the priority - no BS rules about "over prescribing" narcotics for the terminally ill.  IMO withholding pain meds from dying patients is EVIL.
I have seen elderly, dying patients in a University hospital have half a dozen very expensive imaging and lab tests that have no chance of prolonging life or even improving the quality of life and usually when a student asks why?  The answer is that "It's a teaching hospital"  Tens or even hundreds of thousands spent on cases that cannot be successful.  People die, it comes with the whole...life thing....
They have no "right" to be kept alive.  They have EVERY right to be able to die without pain and with some dignity.

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#10    Frank Merton

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 05:44 AM

ln Vietnam, you can buy insurance if you want to, but it costs more for most people than going out-of-pocket, and so is for the poor (who get it subsidized, but even then don't generally).  There has been a few cases of employer-provided insurance but the stupidity of that idea seems to be understood.

If a doctor makes a mistake, he or she may be disciplined, but there are no lawsuits that I ever heard of (theoretically possible but readily dismissed--I suspect the behavior has to be pretty bad before a lawsuit will be allowed to proceed and by then the offendor will no longer have a license).  The same applies to medicine, most of which can be gotten from any pharamacist, without a prescription (there are a few exceptions -- things used in suicides and more  and more antibiotics).  Most prescription drugs are bought in bulk by the governmment and then depending on what they are for are destributed at some sort of subsidy.

The main thing is if you want really expensive treatment and don't meet standards, you gotta go to Thailand or japan or Singapore for it, and you pay.  The system sure can be criticized, and sometimes leads to harsh results, but the demand for  medical care when the alternative is death is such that harshness cannot be avoided and still keep the system affordable.  One other thing -- you pay up front.  This kinda statrtles tourists sometimes until they realize what the amounts involved are by translating it into dollars; then they give a little laugh and fork it over.


#11    Br Cornelius

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 09:51 AM

View Postand then, on 30 July 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

I agree.  Our system is profit oriented - as is everything in the US - and with medicine it is unseemly, I believe.  People should not be allowed to live or die based solely on their income.  Having said that, a free market system has made American healthcare the best until recently.  A happy medium could be found if litigation was stopped except in the most egregious cases of stupidity.  Also a plan should be devised by the medical professionals that prioritizes who should receive the most intensive assistance.  An 87 year old with cancer should not be receiving half a dozen MRI or CT exams and 2 months in a hospital that the taxpayers are going to have to cover.  A teen?  Absolutely, regardless of income.  A terminal patient should be treated aggressively for an initial round of radiation or chemo.  If they respond, perhaps a second round.  Beyond that they should be receiving end of life care.   Pain management should be the priority - no BS rules about "over prescribing" narcotics for the terminally ill.  IMO withholding pain meds from dying patients is EVIL.
I have seen elderly, dying patients in a University hospital have half a dozen very expensive imaging and lab tests that have no chance of prolonging life or even improving the quality of life and usually when a student asks why?  The answer is that "It's a teaching hospital"  Tens or even hundreds of thousands spent on cases that cannot be successful.  People die, it comes with the whole...life thing....
They have no "right" to be kept alive.  They have EVERY right to be able to die without pain and with some dignity.
Thats what happens when you get paid by the number of interventions you order. Medicine for profit is a seriously bad idea.

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#12    questionmark

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 10:23 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 30 July 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

Thats what happens when you get paid by the number of interventions you order. Medicine for profit is a seriously bad idea.

Br Cornelius

Yeh, but who is going to do it without profit?

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#13    Br Cornelius

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 11:23 AM

View Postquestionmark, on 30 July 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

Yeh, but who is going to do it without profit?
The NHS does/did a fairly good job. Reward the professionals for the job they do at a fair rate but don't encourage them to do costly interventions because its more profitable to do so.

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#14    F3SS

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 11:27 AM

View Postquestionmark, on 30 July 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

Yeh, but who is going to do it without profit?

Exactly. That is thee bottom line. Food and shelter are just as important in life and nobody ever says that about homebuilders and farmers.

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#15    Br Cornelius

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 11:47 AM

View PostF3SS, on 30 July 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

Exactly. That is thee bottom line. Food and shelter are just as important in life and nobody ever says that about homebuilders and farmers.
That doesn't require profit, its a bizarre notion that people only do things for profit.
Have you ever heard of a salary consummate with your skills ??

It seems a perverse American notion that nothing happens without profit intervening.

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