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The millenial Kingdom of Christ...


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#1    Jor-el

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 08:34 PM

A few days a go I was having a discussion with another christian on the biblical concept of The Millenium (also known as the Thousand Years and for the Jews, the Messianic Age)and the Millenial Reign of Christ on Earth. I would like to know your opinions on this subject...

Who will actually live in this Kingdom?
Will the Church be a part of this Kingdom?
Will people be born and die in this kingdom?

What will its politcs be like?
What can be expected of living in such a kingdom?

Basically I would like to know your thoughts on any and every aspect in regards to this coming kingdom of Christ.

For context, the kingdom of Christ will be established after the 2nd coming of Christ to earth, upon his coming the following will happen:

Revelation 19:11-21

11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:


king of kings and lord of lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

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#2    rodentraiser

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:51 PM

Well, I won't be living there - that's for sure!

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#3    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 09:57 AM

View PostJor-el, on 31 July 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

Who will actually live in this Kingdom?
Earthly survivors will live there since not everyone on Earth will be present at this battle, I assume. The resurrected martyrs will also be there. I believe some or all of the Raptured Christians will be part of Jesus' Heavenly entourage, "riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean;" therefore, perhaps some or all will stay on earth. The Bible mentions saints -- those converts after the "first resurrection," and again, the Raptured Christians (saints), part of Jesus' entourage.

View PostJor-el, on 31 July 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

Will the Church be a part of this Kingdom?
Will people be born and die in this kingdom?
Jesus Christ will be the living temple or church.

"At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven."  Matthew 22:30

No more babies, but many people will die, but only during the "fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them."

Peace.

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
My Lord is not a judge but a loving Divine Being. Love is our natural state, and it also demands us to grow up. Our conscience tells us when we are not in that state of love.

#4    Ogbin

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 08:40 PM

Zechariah 14:16 "And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles."

i believe that the survivors that go into the 1000 year reign of Christ will be the children that were born during the tribulation and those which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had recieved his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands.

I believe that people will be born and some will die.
Isaiah 65:20-22 "There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die at an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of theirs hands."

Edited by Ogbin, 01 August 2013 - 08:50 PM.


#5    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 12:46 AM

Isaiah 65:20
"Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed."

Who will "die" to sin?
Who will be bird-meat?
Who will be devoured by fire from heaven?


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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
My Lord is not a judge but a loving Divine Being. Love is our natural state, and it also demands us to grow up. Our conscience tells us when we are not in that state of love.

#6    Jor-el

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:08 PM

View Postrodentraiser, on 31 July 2013 - 10:51 PM, said:

Well, I won't be living there - that's for sure!

And why won't you be living there rodentraiser?

From what I have heard it is supposed to be heaven on earth... literally.

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#7    Ogbin

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:18 PM

Braveone2u,


Obviously the one who dies to sin will be the one who commits the sin. Better question is, what is the sin they die to? I believe this sin is personal sin.

The ones who have their flesh eaten by the fowls of the air are at the battle of Armageddon, which is at Christs 2nd comming when he sets up his millennial kingdom.
Zechariah 14:2 " For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle;..."
Revelation 16:16 " And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon."
Revelation 19:17-18 "And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captians, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great."

The ones who will be devoured by fire from heaven are at the final battle at the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ.
Revelation 20:7-9 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

Edited by Ogbin, 02 August 2013 - 07:27 PM.


#8    Jor-el

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:34 PM

View Postbraveone2u, on 01 August 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

Earthly survivors will live there since not everyone on Earth will be present at this battle, I assume. The resurrected martyrs will also be there. I believe some or all of the Raptured Christians will be part of Jesus' Heavenly entourage, "riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean;" therefore, perhaps some or all will stay on earth. The Bible mentions saints -- those converts after the "first resurrection," and again, the Raptured Christians (saints), part of Jesus' entourage.

No the battle does not involve the population of the entire planet, it involves three very specific groups of people... The Generals and the armies, The leaders or Kings of the nations of those armies and the False Prophet and the Beast.

The heavenly entourage as you call it or the Celestial Army of God, which is the entire church of all ages, including the martyrs, the raptured and dead christians arisen in Christ, come down with Christ to do battle and this signals the start of the Millenium.

Quote

"At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven."  Matthew 22:30

No more babies, but many people will die, but only during the "fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them."

Peace.

Jesus quote in Matthew is not speaking of the Millenium, is he?

He is speaking of those who are resurrected along with the believers who are transformed at the rapture, having been given celestial bodies, like the one Jesus had after he himself was resurrected.

There are effectively two resurrections in the bible, that of the believers and that of greater humanity at the final judgement.

Yet neither of these resurrections has anything to do with who lives in the millenium, does it?

The church will not be part of those that inhabit the earth during the millenium, we are not even human anymore in these sense of human as we know it now.

So who will be living in the millenium?

Áll the human beings who survived the Great Tribulation, believers and unbelievers, except the believers will not have been transformed because they are saved but not part of the Church and the unbelievers who will stop being unbelievers since the evidence before them will be unrefutable. Christ returned to earth is little hard to get around in trying to justify unbelief.

The human beings who survive will continue to have and be a part of nations inhabiting the world, The Jews will all return to Israel, where finally their own prophecies are fulfilled

So, yes there will be babies being born and old men dying, life will continue, but there will be some major modifications in regard to the type of life people lead.

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#9    rodentraiser

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 10:45 PM

View PostJor-el, on 02 August 2013 - 07:08 PM, said:

And why won't you be living there rodentraiser?

From what I have heard it is supposed to be heaven on earth... literally.

I guess the short answer is that I don't believe in heaven any more than I believe in hell. If there is a hell, it's here on earth already. I'm also not religious.

The long answer would be that I wouldn't want heaven all the time anyway. I'm one of those people who - how can I say this - has to drink from the ocean sometimes even when fresh water is available. I don't want things perfect all the time. I like puzzles that aren't solved, trips that aren't easy, and situations that require dedicated thinking to resolve. I want snow in the winter. OK, I don't want what Buffalo, NY gets, but I could never live in Hawaii or Florida. I need challenge in my life and heaven doesn't sound like it's any kind of challenge, if everything is always perfect.

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I’m sick of voting for the lesser of two evils. The lesser of two evils is still evil. And almost always the lesser of two evils is our only choice.

We have been voting for the lesser of two evils for decade upon decade and look where it’s gotten us.     Coleman Luck


#10    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 10:53 PM

View PostOgbin, on 02 August 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

Obviously the one who dies to sin will be the one who commits the sin.
Hi,

We come alive in Christ because we die "to" sin -- being Born Again. "...the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child." To be Born Again is certainly not the same as dying "of" sin, with Death (with a capital "D") as its outcome. In this context, "to" and "of" are distinct.

It's just the way I got the Isaiah verse.

Peace.

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
My Lord is not a judge but a loving Divine Being. Love is our natural state, and it also demands us to grow up. Our conscience tells us when we are not in that state of love.

#11    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 11:11 PM

Hi Jor-el,

I'm in TOTAL agreement with everything you wrote down, except "there will be babies being born and old men dying..." A verse or two may, in fact, convince me.

Luke 23:29  "For the time will come when you will say, 'Blessed are the childless women, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!'"

Are you 100% sure that some of the Raptured souls will not stick around on earth?

View PostJor-el, on 02 August 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

Jesus quote in Matthew is not speaking of the Millenium, is he?
That's the way I got it, which is the resurrection of the saints, the "dead in Christ." It is, after all, talking about resurrection.

Peace.

Edited by braveone2u, 02 August 2013 - 11:19 PM.

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
My Lord is not a judge but a loving Divine Being. Love is our natural state, and it also demands us to grow up. Our conscience tells us when we are not in that state of love.

#12    Elfin

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 11:28 PM

How sad that people actually believe this stuff.


#13    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 11:32 PM

View PostJor-el, on 02 August 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

Christ returned to earth is little hard to get around in trying to justify unbelief.
But, will they have a genuine love for Christ in their hearts? Therefore, the Devil will get his army after the 1000 years.

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
My Lord is not a judge but a loving Divine Being. Love is our natural state, and it also demands us to grow up. Our conscience tells us when we are not in that state of love.

#14    Jor-el

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 11:52 AM

View Postrodentraiser, on 02 August 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

I guess the short answer is that I don't believe in heaven any more than I believe in hell. If there is a hell, it's here on earth already. I'm also not religious.

The long answer would be that I wouldn't want heaven all the time anyway. I'm one of those people who - how can I say this - has to drink from the ocean sometimes even when fresh water is available. I don't want things perfect all the time. I like puzzles that aren't solved, trips that aren't easy, and situations that require dedicated thinking to resolve. I want snow in the winter. OK, I don't want what Buffalo, NY gets, but I could never live in Hawaii or Florida. I need challenge in my life and heaven doesn't sound like it's any kind of challenge, if everything is always perfect.

I agree and much of what you say is part and parcel of being human (except I do believe in the existence of a heaven and a hell), but I do think that just because we have some verses stating that humanity will be at peace and returning to a much more natural setting in its existence, does not mean that life will suddenly be without challeges. Life in the Millenium would continue in many ways as it does now. We would still ahve scientists, we would still have technology, We would still need to go to school and to study.

What we would not have is conflict such as war, although interpresanal conflict between people who want different things would still continue.

It is said that the Millenial reign of christ will be ruled with a sceptre of Iron, which technically also means in a very strict way. This scepter of iron indicates His divine prerogative to rule and the impossibility of disobedience. But it also implies that people might be ruled against their will.

It was because the church in the early centuries thought that this actually applied to them as they were the body of christ on earth that we have so many deaths at the hand of the church in those centuries. They were trying by human force and power to implement the reign of the Millenium and thought it was their right to do so.

Edited by Jor-el, 03 August 2013 - 11:55 AM.

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#15    Jor-el

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 12:48 PM

View Postbraveone2u, on 02 August 2013 - 11:11 PM, said:

Hi Jor-el,

I'm in TOTAL agreement with everything you wrote down, except "there will be babies being born and old men dying..." A verse or two may, in fact, convince me.

Luke 23:29  "For the time will come when you will say, 'Blessed are the childless women, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!'"

Are you 100% sure that some of the Raptured souls will not stick around on earth?

The church will become the administrators of Earth, with Jesus ruling us along with them, but we will not actually be living as the rest of humanity. We will truly no longer live and die, give birth to children, marry and many other things that belong uniquely to humanity. We will be "as" the angels in that respect.

Quote

That's the way I got it, which is the resurrection of the saints, the "dead in Christ." It is, after all, talking about resurrection.

Peace.

Yes but it also only taling of the church, is it not?

It actually has no bearing on the people who will actually live in the Millenial kingdom.

The millenial kingdom wil jave nations, it will be populated by normal human beings, and thus will have birth and death, which the church is no longer subject to in their celestial bodies.

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"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis





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