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Monotheism and intolerance


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#1    Elfin

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 04:29 PM

Do all monotheistic religions, when given the chance, attempt to suppress other religions?

That they feel the need to resort to force says a lot about the value of their belief-systems.


#2    Dark_Grey

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 04:39 PM

View PostElfin, on 01 August 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

Do all monotheistic religions, when given the chance, attempt to suppress other religions?

That they feel the need to resort to force says a lot about the value of their belief-systems.

If you hold on for a moment, I think I can find you an even wider brush to paint with...

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat [the fruit] thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

"The tragedy of humanity is that we have stone age instincts, medieval institutions and god-like powers."


#3    Elfin

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 04:41 PM

View PostDark_Grey, on 01 August 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

If you hold on for a moment, I think I can find you an even wider brush to paint with...

Most Pagan religions are not so paranoid or exclusivist.


#4    Purifier

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 04:42 PM

Yes. It's called competition for more of your worship and devotion to them.

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#5    Zaphod222

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 04:43 PM

View PostElfin, on 01 August 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

Do all monotheistic religions, when given the chance, attempt to suppress other religions?

That they feel the need to resort to force says a lot about the value of their belief-systems.

No. Some do, some don´t.

Making a roundhouse statement about "all religions" makes about much sense as generalizing about "all sports".
You have to look at the individual religions.

Of course, in today`s world, there is one that really stands out in regard to intolerance and demand for supremacy.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." (Salman Rushdie)

#6    Zaphod222

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 04:44 PM

View PostElfin, on 01 August 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

Most Pagan religions are not so paranoid or exclusivist.

So how many Pagan religions have you investigated?

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." (Salman Rushdie)

#7    Elfin

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 04:46 PM

View PostZaphod222, on 01 August 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

No. Some do, some don´t.

Making a roundhouse statement about "all religions" makes about much sense as generalizing about "all sports".
You have to look at the individual religions.

Of course, in today`s world, there is one that really stands out in regard to intolerance and demand for supremacy.

All monotheistic religions, not all religions. Every single monotheistic religion that exists, when it has been in power, has tended to suppress other religions.

View PostZaphod222, on 01 August 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

So how many Pagan religions have you investigated?

As a student of history and an active member of a Pagan group, quite a lot.


#8    Dark_Grey

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 04:50 PM

View PostElfin, on 01 August 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

Most Pagan religions are not so paranoid or exclusivist.

I'm sure 10 seconds in Google can bring up all kinds of reasons why those religions are terrible. Are you really prepared to have this debate on UM?

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat [the fruit] thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

"The tragedy of humanity is that we have stone age instincts, medieval institutions and god-like powers."


#9    Elfin

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 04:53 PM

View PostDark_Grey, on 01 August 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

I'm sure 10 seconds in Google can bring up all kinds of reasons why those religions are terrible. Are you really prepared to have this debate on UM?

They might be terrible for other reasons (in the opinion of monotheists), but I'm specifically talking about a tendency to suppress all other religions, when given the chance.


#10    Ever Learning

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 04:53 PM

View PostElfin, on 01 August 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

Most Pagan religions are not so paranoid or exclusivist.
Their also not organised and is a lot of variation, there fore its hard to blame what people dont see. the biblical interpretation of pagan is no christian, so i guess you can add the christian extremists whos views dont add up with the bible in with the pagans ;)

It is perhaps misleading even to say that there was such a religion as “paganism” at the beginning of [the Common Era] ... It might be less confusing to say that the pagans, before their competition with Christianity, had no religion at all in the sense in which that word is normally used today. They had no tradition of discourse about ritual or religious matters (apart from philosophical debate or antiquarian treatise), no organized system of beliefs to which they were asked to commit themselves, no authority-structure peculiar to the religious area, above all no commitment to a particular group of people or set of ideas other than their family and political context. If this is the right view of pagan life, it follows that we should look on paganism quite simply as a religion invented in the course of the second to third centuries AD, in competition and interaction with Christians, Jews and others.

—North 1992, 187—88, [21]


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#11    Elfin

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 04:56 PM

View PostArmchair Educated, on 01 August 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

Their also not organised and is a lot of variation, there fore its hard to blame what people dont see. the biblical interpretation of pagan is no christian, so i guess you can add the christian extremists whos views dont add up with the bible in with the pagans ;)

It is perhaps misleading even to say that there was such a religion as “paganism” at the beginning of [the Common Era] ... It might be less confusing to say that the pagans, before their competition with Christianity, had no religion at all in the sense in which that word is normally used today. They had no tradition of discourse about ritual or religious matters (apart from philosophical debate or antiquarian treatise), no organized system of beliefs to which they were asked to commit themselves, no authority-structure peculiar to the religious area, above all no commitment to a particular group of people or set of ideas other than their family and political context. If this is the right view of pagan life, it follows that we should look on paganism quite simply as a religion invented in the course of the second to third centuries AD, in competition and interaction with Christians, Jews and others.
—North 1992, 187—88, [21]

I'm not interested in Christian interpretations of what Paganism is. To say that pre-Christian cultures lacked religion is patently untrue.


#12    Zaphod222

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 05:00 PM

View PostElfin, on 01 August 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

All monotheistic religions, not all religions. Every single monotheistic religion that exists, when it has been in power, has tended to suppress other religions.

No.
When have the Bahais ever oppressed other religions?
When have the Amish ever oppressed other religions?
When have the Mandeans ever oppressed other religions?
When have the Yazidi ever oppressed other religions?
When have the Druzes ever oppressed other religions?

Give examples.

Or take your simplistic roundhouse claim.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." (Salman Rushdie)

#13    Elfin

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 05:01 PM

View PostZaphod222, on 01 August 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

No.
When have the Bahais ever oppressed other religions?
When have the Amish ever oppressed other religions?
When have the Mandeans ever oppressed other religions?
When have the Yazidi ever oppressed other religions?
When have the Druzes ever oppressed other religions?

Give examples.

Or take your simplistic roundhouse claim.

When have those ever been in power?


#14    Ever Learning

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 05:02 PM

View PostElfin, on 01 August 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

I'm not interested in Christian interpretations of what Paganism is. To say that pre-Christian cultures lacked religion is patently untrue.
That depends, what is your definition of religion? and can you name the pagans your talking about?

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#15    Zaphod222

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 05:03 PM

View PostElfin, on 01 August 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

As a student of history and an active member of a Pagan group, quite a lot.

How many is "quite a lot"?
One? Ten? A hundred?

Is generalizing about something as vast as religious teaching really so tempting?
It is like going to a library and making a statement about the content of "all books".

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." (Salman Rushdie)




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