Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 1 votes

two choices


  • Please log in to reply
965 replies to this topic

#961    danielost

danielost

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 28,386 posts
  • Joined:26 Nov 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:the only known inhabited planet in the universe

Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:39 PM

View PostBen Masada, on 10 October 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:



It depends. If you are not talking in absolute values, space can exist without time but not time without space. Taking from the definition of both, space is the distance between matter and matter and time is measured by the matter in motion. If matter remains inert there is no time to figure but if matter is in motion, time is present as an accident of motion.

Using this then you end up with either no space or no matter.
Matter is made up of atoms. Atoms are made up of particles.
There is space between those particles.  But those are made up of smaller and smaller particles until you get down to strings(string theory) which are solid.  
So matter on our scale is not solid.  Yet energy on the atomic scale is solid.  And we com back to there being time without space and space without time.(einstien)


Also according to string theory everything in this universe is covred by one single membrane, like a living cell.  Seems I have brought that ten year old kid back but now we are part of his/her body.


But, the real problem is that there is no such thing as time.  To us the life span of a single cell is only a few seconds. But how long is it to that single cell.  We live up to one hundred years, but how long is that to the ten year old person of which we are a part of.  There is and never has been any time.  Space is the part of reality that does not change.  We use time to keep everything straight as we move around in space.

So if we want to go to the nearest star system we need to do away with time.  That is how god moves.

Edited by danielost, 10 October 2013 - 11:50 PM.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you. http://fremerica.freeforums.net/

#962    Mr Walker

Mr Walker

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 14,176 posts
  • Joined:09 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Australia

  • Sometimes the Phantom leaves the jungle, and walks the streets of the city like an ordinary man.

Posted 11 October 2013 - 08:09 AM

View Postjoc, on 10 October 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

The concept of God came from Man's early misunderstandings of his environment....plus, the 'coincidences' of life.   For ex: Man hears Thunder and lightening strikes...God.   A volcano erupts....God.   Flood...God.   Tsunami....God.   Plague....God.   Death....God. Life...God.   Creation...God.

No that is a gross simplification of where the concept of gods comes from, and so simple it is basically wrong.

  The concepts of, and the ability to recognise catalogue etc., entiites as gods, comes, in part  from within our heads;  as  part of a very complex and evolved system of thought, but it also comes from people who have had encounters of different types with god(s) and then talk about them and share their experiences.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#963    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 10,383 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

  • I dunno --

Posted 11 October 2013 - 08:20 AM

View PostLeonardo, on 10 October 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

Nothing can "come into existence" without time. "Coming into existence" explicitly implies time pre-exists. You have simply misunderstood what some notable scientists have attempted to explain - or perhaps they explained it poorly.
You are mistaken on this one.  The idea of a beginning of time has been bandied about informally in physics for quite awhile.  Your objection makes no sense to me.  There is no "before time."  Time begins when space begins.  We use the phrase "coming into existence" when perhaps a more accurate description would be "popped into existence" as there is no implication of pre-existing time.


#964    Ben Masada

Ben Masada

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,181 posts
  • Joined:06 Apr 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Israel

Posted 11 October 2013 - 08:50 AM

View PostJ. K., on 10 October 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

Pardon me if I am wrong, but isn't matter made of atoms?  And atoms are made of protons and electrons which are constantly in motion?  Even if an object is still, its component parts are in motion, and therefore subject to passing of time.

I knew you would forget my statement, "If you are not taking in absolute values." To take in absolute values yes matter is never in the inert state because of the atoms albeit you don't see them. Of course, I am aware that the atoms are constantly in the dynamic state of motion but I meant to speak of visible matter. Yes, time is an accident of the motion effected by the electrons constantly in motion. But you can never teach that to a child because it neither can see nor understand how.


#965    Mr Walker

Mr Walker

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 14,176 posts
  • Joined:09 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Australia

  • Sometimes the Phantom leaves the jungle, and walks the streets of the city like an ordinary man.

Posted 11 October 2013 - 08:51 AM

View PostLeonardo, on 10 October 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

Entropy is a local phenomenon that applies only to closed systems. Because it is a local phenomenon, and because an infinite duration/size universe cannot be a closed system, it has no bearing on the infinite duration/existence of the universe.



Nothing can "come into existence" without time. "Coming into existence" explicitly implies time pre-exists. You have simply misunderstood what some notable scientists have attempted to explain - or perhaps they explained it poorly.

Perhaps or perhaps not. First entropy is a universal phenomenum. ie it is applied to the whole universe from the big bang to the point where the universe springs back into its pre big bang configuration.The universe, as i understand it, IS a finite and closed system. It has eges around its "spherical  skin" at the furthest point of its present expansion form the big bang. Beyond those edges is the same nothingness which preceeded the big bang.

On the other hand wormholes and brane theory suggest that there is more to our simple universe than this. BUT STILL, in all, the universe is finite  and eventually a closed system.  just more complex than we first thought.

Second, of course something can come into existence without time existing before then, because time then only begins when everything else does.

Ie when energy, matter, etc begins/comes into existence,  so does time come into existence, and ONLY then.

Time cannot exist when nothing else exists.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#966    Ben Masada

Ben Masada

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,181 posts
  • Joined:06 Apr 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Israel

Posted 11 October 2013 - 09:06 AM

View Postdanielost, on 10 October 2013 - 11:39 PM, said:

Using this then you end up with either no space or no matter. Matter is made up of atoms. Atoms are made up of particles. There is space between those particles.  But those are made up of smaller and smaller particles until you get down to strings(string theory) which are solid.  So matter on our scale is not solid.  Yet energy on the atomic scale is solid.  And we com back to there being time without space and space without time.(einstien)

Also according to string theory everything in this universe is covred by one single membrane, like a living cell.  Seems I have brought that ten year old kid back but now we are part of his/her body.

But, the real problem is that there is no such thing as time.  To us the life span of a single cell is only a few seconds. But how long is it to that single cell.  We live up to one hundred years, but how long is that to the ten year old person of which we are a part of.  There is and never has been any time.  Space is the part of reality that does not change.  We use time to keep everything straight as we move around in space. So if we want to go to the nearest star system we need to do away with time.  That is how god moves.

Well, you don't have to go that far if you want really to be that absolute. It is enough to say that there is no time because as the past jumps into the future, it missed the present. There no past because it is gone, there is no present because the past jumped into the future and there is no future because it is still to come. But back to relativity, Space needs matter to identify itself by limits, and time needs matter in motion to be figured.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users