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[Merged] Madeleine McCann


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#166    skookum

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 10:59 AM

View PostAaronsmom, on 10 May 2014 - 06:19 AM, said:

A small correction, Curious: it wasn't blood that was found. It was some tiny smear of something the Portuguese police claimed was a match to the girl's DNA. No one ever said it was blood. I can't recall now the details, but I read somewhere this claim was later disproved. It never made any sense to me how or why the child's DNA would be in a car the McCann's rented AFTER the disappearance was reported. That family was followed everywhere they went by cameras and reporters until they left Portugal. No way could they sneak off in the rental car to recover a hidden corpse to dispose of it somewhere. The press surrounded them every second they were in Portugal.


They did give everyone the slip on the trip to Huelva.  This trip is very controversial as nobody has really explained why go there?  It was originally scheduled for the 2nd August but they cancelled it due to an illness. They actually went on the 3rd August and drove the 190km  into Spain.

They reported themselves in blogs that they were not followed and didn't have the press with them.  They left at 9am on a journey that should take no longer than 2 hours.  They actually arrived at 12.15 to a deserted Huelva due to it being a public holiday.

Skeptics of the McCann's version of events have studied this journey intensely.  The Portuguese police also noted the car had mileage discrepancies as well as the missing time.  In addition mobile phone pings apparently have them at various locations off the main route that would have been taken.

This journey is seen by the skeptics as their key evidence.  The theory put forward was that the body could have been stored in a freezer and then disposed of on this trip.  They claim that this is the reason the dogs detected blood and cadaver odour in the hire car.  Further evidence they claim is down to their heavy Catholic beliefs in visiting a grave exactly 3 months after the passing. The trip took place exactly 3 months after.

In my opinion they would have taken one hell of a risk transporting a body in a hire car.  However the hire car does have strange things surrounding it.

Unexplained mileage
Blood
Cadaver odour
Booked on Gerry's credit card when he had already stated under questioning he had no credit cards.
The car being left with the boot open for many days after trip.

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Edited by skookum, 16 May 2014 - 11:04 AM.

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#167    regi

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 12:26 PM

I'm at a complete loss over how anything to do with that rental car could be related to the crime.
Seriously, the only possible way I can think of to even attempt to relate it to the crime would be to consider that whomever previously rented the car was somehow connected.


#168    skookum

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 12:39 PM

View Postregi, on 16 May 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

I'm at a complete loss over how anything to do with that rental car could be related to the crime.
Seriously, the only possible way I can think of to even attempt to relate it to the crime would be to consider that whomever previously rented the car was somehow connected.

The car was unbooked between 12th April to the 8th May when a British guy had rental of it for the weeks before McCann's.  The mileage records showed it had only covered about a kilometer in the time it wasn't rented.  When they received the vehicle it had 3114km, by September it had covered 14443.  That is 11,000km or about 7,000 miles, roughly translated to 420 miles a week.

Other people had access to the car as well with various additional drivers added from time to time.

To the contrary of UK press reports the Police did seem to carry out very extensive investigations along various lines of inquiries.

Edited by skookum, 16 May 2014 - 01:13 PM.

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#169    regi

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 02:57 PM

Well, I'm still at a complete loss. :td: I don't get what 'this' has to do with 'that' and then 'the other thing', but hey, that's okay. :tu:


#170    skookum

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 01:36 AM

View Postregi, on 16 May 2014 - 02:57 PM, said:

Well, I'm still at a complete loss. :td: I don't get what 'this' has to do with 'that' and then 'the other thing', but hey, that's okay. :tu:

Well to cut a long story short.  One of the lines of inquiry was the possibility that the McCann's or Tapas friends concealed the body in an apartment supplied by the only other suspect at the time Robert Murat.  The body was hidden in a freezer until they could find a time to move the body and dispose of it using the hire car.

Forensics showed signs of the girls DNA in the boot and blood that had been frozen at some point.  The forensics were tested in the UK and considered a 90 odd percent match however the car wasn't suitably contained, in fact it was driven to the police station which puts big doubts over contamination.

The McCann's have always claimed the blood was from some Sea bass that had leaked into the boot and the airing was to get rid of the smell of that and dirty nappies. The car was seen as crucial evidence as the elite British Cadaver dogs had alerted them to it in the first place.

However people feel about this theory the evidence is too flimsy to stand up due to the way the forensics were collected.

Edited by skookum, 17 May 2014 - 01:37 AM.

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#171    Aaronsmom

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 05:22 AM

View Postregi, on 10 May 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:



You've made a good point regarding stranger abduction, but I think if the Lundsford's were more heavily scrutinized, it was because the abduction was from the child's own bed.
(Now, I didn't follow that story as the events unfolded, but I'm familiar with the case.)
Yes, in that particular circumstance, the perp is often a neighbor and if not a neighbor, he's known to the family or knows of the family and so for that reason and without a doubt, the fact that Madeleine's abduction occurred at a resort makes it a far more complex and therefore, extraordinarily difficult investigation.

Yes, she was taken from her bed with her grandparents sleeping in the other room, and they were the last known people to have seen Jessica. That's always where an investigation starts. What disturbed me was how harshly judgmental people were of the family based in very superficial facts of their life. I think living in a trailer was a big part of that. I recall the father was crucified by true crime buffs for being an ugly, greasy-haired, low life biker (rode a motorcycle) who was stay at his GF's the night JF went missing. I read comments like what a slime the guy was for leaving his daughter for the night to "hook up" with some GF, as though he had no right to have a personal life as a single father, or as though he had left her by herself when she was in the care of her grandparents WHO LIVED WITH THEM! The police made them take lie detector tests, naturally, but someone told the media that her grandmother had failed the test. That was wrong to do that. The worst thing I think, though, was they ran a background check on the three of them and the police leaked that the grandfather had an arrest for petty theft when he was in his early
20s. Since then, totally clean. So some of the public suspicious of the family seized this as a red flag the family were criminals, as though millions of people don't have minor skeletons in their closet. It was criminal, IMO...especially when I think of what was happening to that poor girl while her family was being tried in the court of unlucky opinion. It made me ill.


#172    Aaronsmom

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 09:05 PM

Yikes! That should read "...while her family was being tried in the court of •public• opinion", not "unlucky opinion." LOL Yes, it was unlucky, but that's not what I meant to say. I love my iPhone, but it's almost "too good". If I hit the wrong key or skip a letter while typing a word, the auto-correct feature will try to guess what I'm trying to say and takes it upon itself to substitute another word, often saying something not even close to right. I really wonder what I wrote for it to go from public opinion to unlucky.


#173    skookum

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 11:21 AM

Well the latest from Scotland Yard is

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27514800

Be interesting if anything will happen as the imminent arrest of suspects, digging up the resort and the identification of the bin man have all been press hype with no actual action.

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#174    RabidMongoose

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 12:58 PM

View Postregi, on 16 May 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

I'm at a complete loss over how anything to do with that rental car could be related to the crime.
Seriously, the only possible way I can think of to even attempt to relate it to the crime would be to consider that whomever previously rented the car was somehow connected.

Criminologists know the thought processess that murderers go through when disposing of bodies:

1 - The culprit travels away from where they live, kills and then leaves the body. The travelling is so that Police attention isnt drawn to the area that they live in.

2 - The culprit murders where they live and then travels away to dump the body. By disposing of the corpse a distance away from their location they hope to avoid Police attention being drawn onto them.

The Portuguese Police will have quickly ascertained the McCanns as being likely suspects and then sat back to watch how they behave (as opposed to the UK media portraying them as doing nothing). Sure enough a hire car is rented and the McCanns go for a long trip to Spain. It wont be the only thing that raised eyebrows at the Portugeuse Police Station running the investigation. You'd be surprised at what criminologists know about how murderers behave.

I think everybody is in a cat and mouse game here to get enough evidence to prosecute the McCanns. They know it themselves too!

Edited by RabidMongoose, 22 May 2014 - 01:00 PM.


#175    skookum

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 03:52 PM

View PostRabidMongoose, on 22 May 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:



I think everybody is in a cat and mouse game here to get enough evidence to prosecute the McCanns. They know it themselves too!

Personally I think it is all a whitewash to cover up the truth whatever it may be.

To many powerful people became closely involved within hours of the disappearance.  This 5 million pound investigation has so far come up with the most ludicrous suggestions with regards to suspects so far.  I think we are hitting a point were they will need to wind it down soon unless they can make an arrest/arrests.

When you look at this case and the resources used compared to the Ben Needham case it is truly unbelievable.

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#176    skookum

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 09:46 AM

For anyone in the UK interested in the case, a documentary is being aired on 3rd June on CH5 about the seedy sides of one of the detectives working for the McCann's.

'The McCann's and the Conman'

http://www.tvrage.com/shows/id-42673

This is about Kevin Halligen who was reported to be paid £500,000 from the Madeline fund.  It was reported spent the money on expensive hotels, women and wining and dining various people.

After a warrant was issued for unconnected crimes (fraud and money laundering) he was found staying in a £700 a night Oxford hotel. Clarence Mitchell spoke out during his employment saying 'they were happy with his work'

Later it was said he failed to investigate any information from their own hotline.  The other private detectives Metedo 3 who were being paid £50,000 a month have also faced legal action and imprisonment for other various crimes.

This is all very interesting to me

My interest in the case started by reading various complaints about the Find Madeline fund.  It became very controversial when it was discovered it was being used to pay the McCann's mortgage.  Later on a relative admitted on camera they were using it for legal expenses.  The accounts are not transparent and it is not a charity but a PLC company.  The fund seems to be regularly topped up with large sums won by the very much feared libel solicitors Carter Ruck.

My concern is people being paid vast sums of money who are connected with money laundering.  Make of that what you like.

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#177    H. Drake

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 10:54 AM

I've never had any doubt in my mind that the McCanns were guilty as hell. Guilty of what, exactly? I can only speculate on the events of that night, but they are responsible for Madeline's "disappearance" and not some random child-snatcher, and not simply through their own gross negligence as parents. It's only human nature that your average person won't suspect them, because none of us want to believe that someone could be involved in "losing" their own child. But unfortunately, in the majority of cases, the perpetrator is usually someone connected to the victim. There is far more evidence pointing towards the McCanns being involved than anyone else.


#178    skookum

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 11:54 AM

Well they have started the dig

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27659905

I am still cynical as these areas were extensively searched within the days she went missing.  It is a popular dog walking spot and was also searched by British Police dogs.

Still it may uncover something I hope and is not just a publicity stunt.  Some locals are furious as it is yet more negative press the resort is getting with many already saying they have summer rentals being cancelled over safety fears over children.

Edited by skookum, 02 June 2014 - 11:55 AM.

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#179    regi

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 01:47 PM

View Postskookum, on 02 June 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27659905
I am still cynical as these areas were extensively searched within the days she went missing.  It is a popular dog walking spot and was also searched by British Police dogs.

I don't know how extensive any previous search was, but in any unsolved case whether it's a cold case or a stalled investigation, it's part of what authorities will and should do, that is, take another, closer look at what's already been done. It's precisely what I'd expect.
Anyway, I sometimes wonder why reporters quote those they do. That 77 year-old man (he didn't want to be identified) thinks the search is "ridiculous" ...yes, because they already looked there back in the day... but the kicker is that he apparently expected to have actually seen someone out there digging a hole. :whistle:
Well, I take it he was out there everyday and didn't see anyone involved in any unusual activity, but what could or would be valuable info. is whether or not he saw anyone out there, period.

Edited by regi, 02 June 2014 - 01:48 PM.


#180    skookum

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 03:15 PM

The search was very extensive, even spotters were used in aircraft piloted by volunteers at a local airfield.  Specialist British dogs were also called in but lost the scent around the beach area.

I think what is baffling people this is an extremely popular area for dog walkers, joggers and hikers.  The ground is baked hard and would need considerable effort to dig.  Talking to a few contacts they are very skeptical that this would be a 'chosen' area for a pre-planned crime.  It seems that it would have been more of an impulse/panic location to dispose of a body.  Of course this goes back to just how difficult it would have been to do it at night with basic digging equipment.  You would have at least needed a pick axe and shovel, something that would have looked extremely suspicious to be walking around with at night.

Any disturbed ground would have stuck out like a sore thumb and with the area being so popular I am sure it would have been noticed.  

A local person has been pictured holding this sign.

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Certain camps like to portray the Portuguese police as 'bungling' and that the local people did not care or help.  This has made the locals extremely angry.

Incidentally the timing has also raised a few eyebrows.  This week they will be airing the McCann's and the Conman documentary and they received a severe blow at their libel trial.  The court have ruled that because they made Madeline a ward of court they do not possess the right to pursue damages of 1/2 million pounds for her.

I understand they will continue to seek damages of 250k each parent and 80k for their other children.

Edited by skookum, 02 June 2014 - 03:24 PM.

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