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I Am Bradley Manning


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#1    Kowalski

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 04:59 PM

Good video, and an excellent question:




So, how bout it guy's... If you saw a war crime, would you report it?

Edited by Kowalski, 12 August 2013 - 04:59 PM.


#2    questionmark

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 05:02 PM

Naturally I would, what I would not do is to also publish all dirty wash of the Department of State.

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#3    Kowalski

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 05:18 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 12 August 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

Naturally I would, what I would not do is to also publish all dirty wash of the Department of State.

Well, I was kinda hoping we could discuss, just the War crimes part. We already have several threads about Bradley Manning and whether publishing all the documents he did, was a risk to National Security....But, let's say a soldier was to make it public, about several war crimes that had happened, that the government didn't want known. Would this same soldier be persecuted like they did Manning? Shouldn't there be a law that protects people who expose war crimes?


#4    Thanato

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 05:22 PM

As a member of the Military you have a duty to report illegal activity and to disobey an unlawful command. However He leaked hundreds of thousands of files, not just war crimes files. Diplomatic Cables, Battlefield Reports, etc. Had he released just the video and other illegal activities my opinion of him would be different.

But my opinion stands that he deserve his punishment for betraying his position and his uniform.

The Western Military Defends Democracy, but we do not practice it. We are war fighters, our job is not pretty and we are willing to do terrible things to ensure that you can live the life you do. People assume that Military Justice is just like Civilian Justice, the problem is Military justice is very different and unless you know about it you will think it is harsh and unjust.

PFC Manning can not go unpunished for the hundreds of thousands of files which show no criminal activity. Just because a few, such as the Apache footage, showed criminal activity does not excuse the vast criminal negligence of PFC Manning.

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#5    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 05:24 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 12 August 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

Naturally I would, what I would not do is to also publish all dirty wash of the Department of State.
Exact;y. Publicise the crime and those responsible for it, don't just give a great metaphorical truckload of stuff without knowing what might be in it to troublemakers, just in case there might be something in there relating to war crimes.

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#6    ZOD

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 05:43 PM

I don't think I would.

It's war, and history is written by the winner

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#7    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 06:00 PM

I thought the Nuremberg trials established that there is no hiding place for those "just obeying orders" and by implication puts an onus on people to put their hand up if they see something wrong. Works two ways for them, by being moral, and by saving their skin if things go bad in the future for their side, whatever that may be.


#8    questionmark

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 06:19 PM

View PostKowalski, on 12 August 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

Well, I was kinda hoping we could discuss, just the War crimes part. We already have several threads about Bradley Manning and whether publishing all the documents he did, was a risk to National Security....But, let's say a soldier was to make it public, about several war crimes that had happened, that the government didn't want known. Would this same soldier be persecuted like they did Manning? Shouldn't there be a law that protects people who expose war crimes?

As long as it is ONLY the war crimes: Yes.

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#9    MrBene

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 06:19 PM

I believe there are thousands of war crimes that are still covered under a pile of crap. This man is a hero.


#10    DecoNoir

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 06:24 PM

I think most of us agree here: there's a difference between reporting wrong doing and what we identify as whistleblowing.

There is nothing wrong with reporting a war crime, especially seeing as the U.S. military likes to think itself a model for the world to follow. If that's the case then we need to weed out the morons who give the military a bad name.

However, what we now call whistleblowing, I find to be nothing more than stroking your own ego. Really, you couldn't find the actual relevant files? No, you didn't want to go through the effort, you just wanted the feeling that you outsmarted the system.

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#11    Babe Ruth

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:03 PM

View PostSkepticalB, on 12 August 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

I don't think I would.

It's war, and history is written by the winner

What if the war were brought under fraud?  What if the war were not declared in accordance with law?  What if the war were a scam?


#12    Babe Ruth

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:10 PM

In this day and age, most americans pretend there is no such thing as war crimes, or if there are, somebody other than americans do this.  They refuse to acknowledge that their government is at the moment, the largest and most frequent perpetrator of war crimes in the world.

If one sees a crime on the street and does not report it, under Title 18 one has committed Misprison of a Felony, itself a felony.

The same obligation applies if one sees one's government commit felonies, and that's what Manning and others like Ellsberg and Snowden, have done.

One of the slogans of the War On Terror is "see something, say something".  That should have an asterisk, indicating that if you see the government committing a crime, don't say a word, lest one will be prosecuted.

Perhaps the Nobel Peace Committee will give Manning the prize.  He would be, I think, the first political prisoner in the US to receive the award.


#13    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:10 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 12 August 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

What if the war were brought under fraud?  What if the war were not declared in accordance with law?  What if the war were a scam?
All very good questions. What would be the right thing for members of the armed forces to do? To all refuse to obey orders- to all mutiny? It would certainly completely melt down the court martial process, that's for sure.

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#14    Babe Ruth

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:16 PM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 12 August 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

All very good questions. What would be the right thing for members of the armed forces to do? To all refuse to obey orders- to all mutiny? It would certainly completely melt down the court martial process, that's for sure.

I don't know the correct answer, but you certainly raise the right question.

Remember Ehren Watada, 1LT US Army?  Having already served in Afghanistan, under Bush he refused to go to Iraq and was court-martialed.  Retained civilian attorneys, Court Martial judge screwed up badly, and the case ended up in civilian court, and Watada won.

I suspect once the military realized it had some sort of mutiny, or mass refusal, they might change things.  Sadly, considering the brainwashing of the military (I went through it myself), I doubt such a protest would ever reach critical mass.


#15    Kowalski

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:31 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 12 August 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

I don't know the correct answer, but you certainly raise the right question.

Remember Ehren Watada, 1LT US Army?  Having already served in Afghanistan, under Bush he refused to go to Iraq and was court-martialed.  Retained civilian attorneys, Court Martial judge screwed up badly, and the case ended up in civilian court, and Watada won.

I suspect once the military realized it had some sort of mutiny, or mass refusal, they might change things.  Sadly, considering the brainwashing of the military (I went through it myself), I doubt such a protest would ever reach critical mass.

They've been brainwashed into believing their fighting for democracy and freedom, which they aren't... I understand bad things happen in war, but shooting non-combatants from an Apache helicopter? WTF?! No wonder these guys are coming back so screwed up and killing themselves....

I think with every military action since Vietnam, they keep getting worse and worse...





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