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Global Warming Total Fraud

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#46    aztek

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 05:45 PM

we can't change it, and those that say "we must try , we can't afford to stay still" are idiots imho.
but we do need to do something about. we need to equip\prepare ourselves to life when these changes do happen, we can't do much about earth, and anyone that says we can, i'd like to see just 1 instant where we did anything about climate on major scale and it worked. (local rains don't count).

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#47    Br Cornelius

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 06:05 PM

View Postaztek, on 13 August 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

we can't change it, and those that say "we must try , we can't afford to stay still" are idiots imho.
but we do need to do something about. we need to equip\prepare ourselves to life when these changes do happen, we can't do much about earth, and anyone that says we can, i'd like to see just 1 instant where we did anything about climate on major scale and it worked. (local rains don't count).
we are doing something about the climate - we are quite capable of changing both local and global climate and we have contributed to aspects of climate change from the beginning of civilization. One of the oldest written legends, Gilgemesh, describes the deforestation of the near east and the decline of Meopotamia was at least partly consequential to that environmental catastrophe.

Massive reforestation on a planetary scale would have a significant impact in slowing climate change - as it did after the great plagues which swept the New and old worlds and lead to abandonment of huge tracks of cultivated land - leading to short term cooling events.

it shows a profound lack of awareness and imagination to say we cannot effect the climate.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 13 August 2013 - 06:09 PM.

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#48    RavenHawk

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 08:12 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 13 August 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

So what is the natural cycle ? What is the forcing agent ? Its still a cop out unless you can account for it with evidence.
Changing of the seasons, solar mins and maxs, the tilt and wobble in the Earthís orbit, CMEs, Plate Tectonics, orbit of the moon and tides, etc.  Ice cores and tree rings show that climate is not static.  Climate has been cycling for billions of years.  With all of these hundreds of factors and permutations, CO2 levels rise, we see *A* correlation with the activities of Man and automatically, Man is the villain?  Please, pull somebody elseís leg.

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The fact is that CO2 accounts for the rise nicely - there is a mechanism and an anticipated response to rising greenhouse gases. the facts fit the hypothesis and so you would have to account for why a 25% rise in atmospheric CO2 levels wasn't effecting the climate.
Never said it didnít affect the climate.  The question has been, is Man causing climate change?  It may account for it nicely but that is still not proof.  You can show proof of it and I can show proof against it but that doesnít matter.  All I have to do is disprove it once and all the proof in the world wonít matter.  That is how science works.  And my proof against it is scientists like Professor Bob Carter.

This is just a political excuse for Socialists to try to usurp power.  Socialist grabbed the term Anthropomorphic Global Warming because it sounded scary and when that failed, they pulled back a little bit and started calling it Climate Change (without the focus on Man) but the premise still persists that Man is behind it all.  This is very dishonest.

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#49    aztek

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 08:31 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 13 August 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:


it shows a profound lack of awareness and imagination to say we cannot effect the climate.

Br Cornelius


No it only shows you have wild imagination, that is all, we can not affect climate, show me facts where we did.

There is absolutely no proof that pelage’s consequence did affect climate, it most likely a coincidence, and back in those times we did not even have any factories, and transportation, and such huge co2 emission, that is blamed for GW. A few years of no cultivation, is not a model to go by. Even if it was, the world today is way different from those days, and it is getting even more different with every year. and there is no turning back.

We can do something about pollution thou and I have seen examples, but climate, yea sure, tall that myth someone else.
we can change climate just as much as  we can affect volcanos, and earthquakes.

we will continue to cut trees, and will continue to pump co2 in the air by factories and transportation, and it will only get larger. we consume earth resurses, and we can't live if we don't. may be if we didn't know all the things we have now are possible, we might, but than we would not have such a large population, modern medicine and progress increased our life span greatly, and now baby survival vs 100 years ago is increased by 8- 10 fold.

if you want to do anything about GW, prepare yourself, becouse there is nothinh we can or will do to change it, and reality is a ultimate proof.

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#50    Br Cornelius

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 08:42 AM

View PostRavenHawk, on 13 August 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

Changing of the seasons, solar mins and maxs, the tilt and wobble in the Earth's orbit, CMEs, Plate Tectonics, orbit of the moon and tides, etc.  Ice cores and tree rings show that climate is not static.  Climate has been cycling for billions of years.  With all of these hundreds of factors and permutations, CO2 levels rise, we see *A* correlation with the activities of Man and automatically, Man is the villain?  Please, pull somebody else's leg.


Never said it didn't affect the climate.  The question has been, is Man causing climate change?  It may account for it nicely but that is still not proof.  You can show proof of it and I can show proof against it but that doesn't matter.  All I have to do is disprove it once and all the proof in the world won't matter.  That is how science works.  And my proof against it is scientists like Professor Bob Carter.

This is just a political excuse for Socialists to try to usurp power.  Socialist grabbed the term Anthropomorphic Global Warming because it sounded scary and when that failed, they pulled back a little bit and started calling it Climate Change (without the focus on Man) but the premise still persists that Man is behind it all.  This is very dishonest.
I asked for a correlated natural cycle as evidence that the forcing was natural. I asked for a natural cycle which can be demonstrated through data to have caused the recent warming. You have not done that and you failed to meet a scientifically meaningful answer to what is the natural cycle.

If you cant justify your belief with evidence - you are just another politically motivated dupe denier of the science of AGW.

Br Cornelius

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Robert Anton Wilson

#51    MiskatonicGrad

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 08:55 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 14 August 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

I asked for a correlated natural cycle as evidence that the forcing was natural. I asked for a natural cycle which can be demonstrated through data to have caused the recent warming. You have not done that and you failed to meet a scientifically meaningful answer to what is the natural cycle.

If you cant justify your belief with evidence - you are just another politically motivated dupe denier of the science of AGW.

Br Cornelius

But couldn't it be argued that anyone on the side of Global warming is a politically motivated dupe. considering the amount of legislation the left wants to pass in order too control our lives to stave off the coming end of the world?

given the lack of cause and effect data concerning humans and global warming how can anyone hypothesis how we can fix the "problem"?

"Were we directed from Washington when to sow, and when to reap, we should soon want bread" --Thomas Jefferson(1821)

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session"--Mark Twain(1866)

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#52    Br Cornelius

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 08:59 AM

View PostMiskatonicGrad, on 14 August 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

But couldn't it be argued that anyone on the side of Global warming is a politically motivated dupe. considering the amount of legislation the left wants to pass in order too control our lives to stave off the coming end of the world?

given the lack of cause and effect data concerning humans and global warming how can anyone hypothesis how we can fix the "problem"?
Its a massively delusional state to believe that all global institutions are somehow leftist. these are the same institutions which support Neo-liberal economics across the world, which have facilitated the most liberal market economy which the world has ever seen. Isn't it just a possibility that they are well informed leaders who have been told the scientific reality and realize that if they fail to act on the evidence their economic gains will vanish in the blink of an eye. maybe its just reluctant economic self interest at play here.

Have you ever thought of that beyond your conspiratorial fantasies.

Br Cornelius

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Robert Anton Wilson

#53    Br Cornelius

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 09:02 AM

View Postaztek, on 13 August 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

No it only shows you have wild imagination, that is all, we can not affect climate, show me facts where we did.

There is absolutely no proof that pelage’s consequence did affect climate, it most likely a coincidence, and back in those times we did not even have any factories, and transportation, and such huge co2 emission, that is blamed for GW. A few years of no cultivation, is not a model to go by. Even if it was, the world today is way different from those days, and it is getting even more different with every year. and there is no turning back.

We can do something about pollution thou and I have seen examples, but climate, yea sure, tall that myth someone else.
we can change climate just as much as  we can affect volcanos, and earthquakes.

we will continue to cut trees, and will continue to pump co2 in the air by factories and transportation, and it will only get larger. we consume earth resurses, and we can't live if we don't. may be if we didn't know all the things we have now are possible, we might, but than we would not have such a large population, modern medicine and progress increased our life span greatly, and now baby survival vs 100 years ago is increased by 8- 10 fold.

if you want to do anything about GW, prepare yourself, becouse there is nothinh we can or will do to change it, and reality is a ultimate proof.
It would take me far to much effort to convince you that man has been shaping his climate for at least 8 thousand years. Digging out obscure academic papers and data. I will just say there is undeniable evidence that man has and continues to influence climate across the globe. You are not a person who will be changed in your belief so I will save my effort.

Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#54    MiskatonicGrad

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 09:34 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 14 August 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

Its a massively delusional state to believe that all global institutions are somehow leftist. these are the same institutions which support Neo-liberal economics across the world, which have facilitated the most liberal market economy which the world has ever seen. Isn't it just a possibility that they are well informed leaders who have been told the scientific reality and realize that if they fail to act on the evidence their economic gains will vanish in the blink of an eye. maybe its just reluctant economic self interest at play here.

Have you ever thought of that beyond your conspiratorial fantasies.

Br Cornelius

It's nice to know they have the worlds best interest at heart? I think

View PostBr Cornelius, on 14 August 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

It would take me far to much effort to convince you that man has been shaping his climate for at least 8 thousand years. Digging out obscure academic papers and data. I will just say there is undeniable evidence that man has and continues to influence climate across the globe. You are not a person who will be changed in your belief so I will save my effort.

Br Cornelius

Isn't it kind of arrogant on our part to think we puny humans could some how upset the balance of the earth or that we could turn back 8,000 yrs of screwing it up?

and really what are we looking at saving the planet or saving ourselves? do you really think the planet will notice when we go the way of the Dodo?

Yeah times may get tough we as a race may cease to exist but you know what the earth and life will continue and from what I've seen the earth will be a better place.

"Were we directed from Washington when to sow, and when to reap, we should soon want bread" --Thomas Jefferson(1821)

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session"--Mark Twain(1866)

"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." --Thomas Jefferson(1800)

#55    Br Cornelius

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 09:49 AM

View PostMiskatonicGrad, on 14 August 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:



Isn't it kind of arrogant on our part to think we puny humans could some how upset the balance of the earth or that we could turn back 8,000 yrs of screwing it up?

and really what are we looking at saving the planet or saving ourselves? do you really think the planet will notice when we go the way of the Dodo?

Yeah times may get tough we as a race may cease to exist but you know what the earth and life will continue and from what I've seen the earth will be a better place.
It really doesn't take much effort to demonstrate that man can have profound impacts on local climates - mainly through deforestation and its effects on albedo and water cycles. Its complacent to think that we couldn't impact on a larger scale as well.

That is undeniable, but I am personally reluctant to throw up my hands and say we ****ed up lets leave it to the next bunch. After all we are supposedly the most intelligent life on the planet - so we could do better if we at least tried.

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#56    RavenHawk

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 04:50 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 14 August 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

I asked for a correlated natural cycle as evidence that the forcing was natural. I asked for a natural cycle which can be demonstrated through data to have caused the recent warming. You have not done that and you failed to meet a scientifically meaningful answer to what is the natural cycle.
This is a good point to show how dishonest you are or how mislead you are.  Itís the kind of strawman argument that one canít refute because of the way you understand it and state it.  And this is why.  

By saying that Man is the cause of Climate Change is like that whenever I go outside it rains and then saying that therefore I am the cause of it raining.  This is the low hanging fruit.  Billions of dollars have been spent in research to state the obvious.  That man causes an increase in CO2 levels, maybe 100ppm in the last 200 years.  But all life produces CO2.  95% of all species that have ever lived are extinct.  In the times past, there has been far more life than there is now.  In all of the previous eras, CO2 levels have been higher than they are now.

I gave you examples of cycles that occur on this planet.  The point being that Man is but one cycle of thousands.  Man cannot be the only source of CO2.  All of these cycles are not independent of each other.  And they are starting to do research into looking deeper into the relationship and history of these cycles.  And the result is ďnot so fastĒ as far as still blaming Man for Global Warming.  Being one of many cycles on a planet, there are checks and balances that keeps the system running optimally.  Even at the planetary level, innate intelligence regulates that system.  When one cycle changes others change to accommodate it.  One cycle doesnít throw an entire planetary system into a greenhouse environment.  This is what more realistic research is finding out and what common sense already knew.

There has been something like 5 different supercontinents in Earthís history.  Plate tectonics creates volcanoes that spew out more CO2 than Man can ever do.  Several times during these events that lasted 100s to 1000s of years raised CO2 levels to above 1000ppm.  The Cretaceous was the last period when that happened.  The average planet temp was about 10 degrees higher than it is today.  Rainfall increased and life exploded like it had never before.  As a civilization, we are approaching Type I.  That means that we would no longer be dependent on fossil fuels.  I think weíve been estimated at being currently at 0.8 which means within the next couple hundred years weíll be harnessing other forms of energy.  Hardly long enough to destroy the culture of Man.  Things change and usually change for the better.  We need to be prepared for that.

Jeremiah brought up the point that none of us are experts, but we rely on the experts to tell us what is happening.  But that doesnít mean that we check our ability to critically think at the door.  Just because the experts have more letters after their name doesnít mean they are more aware.  It is a matter of understanding what they are saying and then realizing if it is one sided or objective.  Anthropomorphic Climate Change is politically one sided.  We should be doing what we can to reduce our carbon footprint and we will be during the next 200 years but we need to take reasonable measures and not be coerced by the fear mongering of the Left.

Quote

If you cant justify your belief with evidence - you are just another politically motivated dupe denier of the science of AGW.
Yes I can and I have.  And the following clip is all that I need.  Iím not the one politically motivated but I do have a pet peeve against those that are.  And you are quaffing the Socialist koolaid hand over fist.  The following is the first part of 4.  If you are not going to watch to whole thing and learn from it, just donít watch any of it.  It basically shoots down the whole concept of AGW or what Carter uses is torpedoes.



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"%&* YOU and your empty suited insults about "racism" you Islamophobic Zionist freak." - Yamoto

#57    Br Cornelius

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 05:10 PM

Bob Carter :clap:
I can go into detail as to why you are a dupe, but would you listen ?

Here's a response to one of his papers on climate change to cut your teeth on;

http://www.eap-journ..._i2_02_ward.pdf

Again I repeat - every natural cycle has an identifiable cause and until you can show what it is you are speculating beyond the facts which is wish fulfilment.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 14 August 2013 - 05:15 PM.

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Robert Anton Wilson

#58    RavenHawk

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 05:15 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 14 August 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

Bob Carter :clap:
I can go into detail as to why you are a dupe, but would you listen ?
Iím not surprised that youíve found some dirt on Prof. Carter so that you can convince yourself that you donít have to listen to the evidence.  Just as I pointed out, youíve already checked your ability to critically think at the door.

"I don't see one link on this thread providing one shred of evidence for the disgusting jew-hate BS you Zionist liars keep accusing me of." - Yamato
"%&* YOU and your empty suited insults about "racism" you Islamophobic Zionist freak." - Yamoto

#59    Br Cornelius

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 05:21 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 14 August 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

I'm not surprised that you've found some dirt on Prof. Carter so that you can convince yourself that you don't have to listen to the evidence.  Just as I pointed out, you've already checked your ability to critically think at the door.
Read the response and address the shortcomings in his scientific understanding of climate change. Judge him by his failings :tu:

Bob Carter is the ultimate paid schill with a list of right wing think tank sponsors as long as your arm.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 14 August 2013 - 05:22 PM.

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#60    questionmark

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 05:24 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 14 August 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

Read the response and address the shortcomings in his scientific understanding of climate change. Judge him by his failings :tu:

Br Cornelius

Now give the guy a break, would you go to a proctologist because you have a brain damage? Well, Carter's adherents evidently do.

Edited by questionmark, 14 August 2013 - 05:30 PM.

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