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Near-death experiences are 'electrical surge


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#46    Skep B

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 12:05 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 02 October 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

A electrical activity  would`nt explained the peace and calm that people feel in comming back from these experiences,they would be full of anxiety and fear.

Actually it would, all brain activity is electrical activity.  Going from frantic shooting off of impulses to the relative calm of not dying would be enough to cause that calm

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#47    Render

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 11:53 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 02 October 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

A electrical activity  would`nt explained the peace and calm that people feel in comming back from these experiences,they would be full of anxiety and fear.

That's a really weird conclusion you made there, one which has no basis at all.


#48    joz48

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 01:45 PM

View PostMetal Head, on 13 August 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

My problem with Near Death Experiences is that if you are truly dead, as in brain dead, there is no way you can remember what happened while you are dead. There is no brain activity, memory is turned off. NEAR Death Experiences however suggest that you are NOT dead but near death, and your mind is free to make up whatever you like about the time you were NEAR death, i.e. NOT dead. The brain is not turned off and is free to fabricate memories/ideas/scenarios.
Inaccurate the brain like all muscles holds memory for a substantial time once the electrical impulses are turned off hence why a person can be classified as being dead e.g no brain impulse for a considerable time period e.g. coma-tic state only later to make a full recovery. If as you would assume like a flash memory the brain is wiped by the lack of electrical impulses this would then not be possible.


#49    DancingCorpse

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 01:35 AM

I have experienced a fascinating window of slowly dissolving and reforming time where I believed I was dying not so long ago under influence of something. Whilst I was not in physical danger, my subconscious convinced myself that I were about to pass over and it was the most disturbing/beautiful moment and provided much insight once I had integrated the experience. The feeling after the artificial process had concluded was 'well that was how I imagined it...' There had been pervading and potent conflicts within my mind concerning dying and what the freaking heck it meant or felt like to just leave all you have made attachments with. That is why I conjured this particular experience of artificial dying due to questioning and rooting and digging around with a colossally curious inevitability.

I felt a profound sense of unreality and surprise yet peace and acceptance which was channeled through a literal surge of some power/essence like I was buzzing with electricity akin to the sensation that is frequently described in tandem with NDE's, OBE's or dying folks who transcribe their last moments to loved ones. Whilst I have no concept of what true death means (unless this is the afterworld hehe), it gave me a riveting hinge to open and close and rebound thoughts off until I do pass on. I wonder whether something inside of us releases a chemical to 'soothe' the transition like when someone is shot yet feels no pain at the time. I've seen theories related to DMT and the pineal gland continuously.

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#50    White Crane Feather

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 03:41 AM

View PostDancingCorpse, on 06 October 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

I have experienced a fascinating window of slowly dissolving and reforming time where I believed I was dying not so long ago under influence of something. Whilst I was not in physical danger, my subconscious convinced myself that I were about to pass over and it was the most disturbing/beautiful moment and provided much insight once I had integrated the experience. The feeling after the artificial process had concluded was 'well that was how I imagined it...' There had been pervading and potent conflicts within my mind concerning dying and what the freaking heck it meant or felt like to just leave all you have made attachments with. That is why I conjured this particular experience of artificial dying due to questioning and rooting and digging around with a colossally curious inevitability.

I felt a profound sense of unreality and surprise yet peace and acceptance which was channeled through a literal surge of some power/essence like I was buzzing with electricity akin to the sensation that is frequently described in tandem with NDE's, OBE's or dying folks who transcribe their last moments to loved ones. Whilst I have no concept of what true death means (unless this is the afterworld hehe), it gave me a riveting hinge to open and close and rebound thoughts off until I do pass on. I wonder whether something inside of us releases a chemical to 'soothe' the transition like when someone is shot yet feels no pain at the time. I've seen theories related to DMT and the pineal gland continuously.
Actually I have been searching for any evidence that DMT is released close to death.... So far I'm empty handed. It seems to be a suggestion not an actual fact. But I'm open to anyone who has actual scientific data. As of now I have concluded that DMT has nothing to do with NDEs, OBEs, or dreams until Somone shows me a study where they have prooven this.

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#51    spartan max2

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 03:47 AM

View PostWhite Crane Feather, on 06 October 2013 - 03:41 AM, said:

Actually I have been searching for any evidence that DMT is released close to death.... So far I'm empty handed. It seems to be a suggestion not an actual fact. But I'm open to anyone who has actual scientific data. As of now I have concluded that DMT has nothing to do with NDEs, OBEs, or dreams until Somone shows me a study where they have prooven this.

Yeah, I tell people all the time that DMT is not proven to be in the brain. Its a theory atm.

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#52    baro67

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 03:44 PM

the simple electrical activity does not explain the fact that the subject just returned describe in many cases with impressive details what happened around him during his near-death State ... This is impossible unless a part of him was not present and had seen ...


#53    spacelizard667

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 04:12 PM

View PostRender, on 13 August 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...onment-23672150

As i've also said, it's a knee jerk reaction to the extreme occurance of life turning into death.

No, both reports mentioned in the opening of this topic [one of them in the opening quote] are quite inaccurate. Even if a person dies instantly they still go through all of the flashbacks of their own life. That is the after-physical-death process of actual termination of all their physical processes and survivors of Near Death Experiences (hence, NDEs) have always known and said that.


#54    psyche101

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 01:50 AM

View PostLilly, on 13 August 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

This "electrical hypothesis" has been the generally accepted hypothesis for the last few decades. However, there's really no evidence for this, no surge of electrical activity at the time of death has ever been documented that definitively coincides with a near death experience. At this time there exists no concrete (ie, scientifically supported) explanation for the so-called near death experiences.

A very interesting case is that of Dr. Eben Alexander: http://www.nytimes.c...eaven.html?_r=0

Dr. Alexander's own near death expereince resulted in him writing a book and making a complete 360...and for a Harvard medical School, Mass. General Hospital, Brigham and Women' s Hospital l trained neurologist that's really something. Dr. Alexander is what one would call a "expert witness" .

http://en.wikipedia....exander_(author)


That is really interesting, I had not heard of him before. It amazes me that a man of science would dabble in the supernatural, however, when he says:

Still, he said, he has a trump card: Having trained at Duke University and taught and practiced as a surgeon at Harvard, he knows brain science as well as anyone. And science, he said, cannot explain his experience.

Does not this from the link fulfill that requirement?


We identified a transient surge of synchronous gamma oscillations that occurred within the first 30 s after cardiac arrest and preceded isoelectric electroencephalogram. Gamma oscillations during cardiac arrest were global and highly coherent; moreover, this frequency band exhibited a striking increase in anterior–posterior-directed connectivity and tight phase-coupling to both theta and alpha waves. High-frequency neurophysiological activity in the near-death state exceeded levels found during the conscious waking state. These data demonstrate that the mammalian brain can, albeit paradoxically, generate neural correlates of heightened conscious processing at near-death.

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#55    psyche101

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 02:01 AM

View Postnothinglizx2, on 13 August 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

How do you give a spiritual explanation of this to an athiest?  Someone who doesn't want to believe will make up every excuse not to.  Those who want to believe or understand will seek the answers for themselves.

When my Father passed away, I was more religious, and did look into afterlife phenomena, but found nothing. There was no excuse, what I wanted was to speak to my father again more than anything, but the only experiences I have seen seem to ones people convince themselves of. Afterlife claims seem to stem from the Egyptian concepts, it is one of the oldest belief systems that we have, inspired by even more ancient tales of Gilgamesh who sought the secret of immortal life and was told to give it up because the gods had ordained that human life is only temporary.

It seems to me we worked out long ago that we just die, but nobody wanted to believe it, so we made up several versions of the afterlife tailored to suit individual tastes. It makes dying easier I would guess. And the very fact that we all succumb to that fate.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#56    psyche101

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 02:05 AM

View Postbaro67, on 19 November 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

the simple electrical activity does not explain the fact that the subject just returned describe in many cases with impressive details what happened around him during his near-death State ... This is impossible unless a part of him was not present and had seen ...


Don't people dream like that all the time?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#57    psyche101

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 02:15 AM

View Postspartan max2, on 24 August 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

I just have to point out that DMT is not proven to be in the brain it is just a theory.


http://forteansquirr...scientists-say/


http://www.erowid.or..._article2.shtml


So everyone stop watching the spirit molecule lol :whistle:



From your link:


Is DMT produced in our brain?  While some cling to evidence that suggests it is, there is also very good reason to be skeptical.  Putting together my own minimal review of the available literature, as well as the direct responses from two scientists with a level of expertise in the field of neuroscience, it leads me to believe that the evidence is limited and, therefore, the probability not so great.



One thing we can see is DMT does definitely exist and is produced in the body where it putatively functions as a trace amine, perhaps DMT isn't produced in the Pineal Gland, but it is synthesised somewhere within the human body. It is the link from DMT to the spiritual experiences which has been put in question, and I imagine that is a very hard thing to prove. So it is suspect only by ignorance, that does not mean it is definitely not a catalyst.


Can anyone say the same for the afterlife? Has any one bit been proven to exist? Why is it a better explanation?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#58    coolguy

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 05:14 AM

I wonder if doctors could copy this for people to try it,


#59    Frank Merton

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 05:33 AM

I don't have any idea what happens when we die except that by definition most of the ideas have to be wrong.  I am hopeful there is something, but, then, again, if there isn't, I won't know it.

Four things.  First, it seems likely our existence is in a simulation.  That offers some promise, assuming the simulators are aware of us, that when we die we reach down and unplug the machine we were attached to.

Second, I have had personal experiences that make me wonder about ghosts.  I certainly hope that is not our fate.

Third, it seems to me the processes we call mind often demonstrate an independence of the physical brain and body.  Whether there is enough independence and how this could have evolved are huge problems.  Sentience and consciousness do not seem to be physical in nature.

Finally, it occurs to me that in the distant future it may become possible for society to bring back to life those who have died -- through now unimaginable technologies.  I have to imagine that if this is possible it will be done.  Then there will be the question of whether or not such a resurrected person "really" is me.


#60    psyche101

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 06:08 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 21 November 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

I don't have any idea what happens when we die except that by definition most of the ideas have to be wrong.  I am hopeful there is something, but, then, again, if there isn't, I won't know it.

Indeed, however, if you feel there is an afterlife, many religions insist it is for people only, and you wont be reunited with your pet dog when you get to heaven.

What is the general consensus on this? Does not seem like a pleasant afterlife if parts of your physical existence are stripped back from you? That is what makes what I consider "The Spirit" of a person.

View PostFrank Merton, on 21 November 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

Four things.  First, it seems likely our existence is in a simulation.  That offers some promise, assuming the simulators are aware of us, that when we die we reach down and unplug the machine we were attached to.

If we were part of a simulation, would it not be impossible for us to know that, therefore the only reason to believe in a  simulation is belief in a simulation?

View PostFrank Merton, on 21 November 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

Second, I have had personal experiences that make me wonder about ghosts.  I certainly hope that is not our fate.

I cannot comment on your personal experience, but mine tell me no such thing exists. If such does exist, why are people who want to visit this realm denied, and mostly people of dubious character offered entrance or insight by default? Like the Sylvia Browns of the world? Or that jumped up upstart braggit, Allison DuBois. Middle aged women with mid life crisis issues seem to be a target for the manifestation of this ability?

View PostFrank Merton, on 21 November 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

Third, it seems to me the processes we call mind often demonstrate an independence of the physical brain and body.  Whether there is enough independence and how this could have evolved are huge problems.  Sentience and consciousness do not seem to be physical in nature.

But doesn't brain malfunction affect these abilities?  Cognitive, thought processing etc etc? Is that not a physical connection?

View PostFrank Merton, on 21 November 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

Finally, it occurs to me that in the distant future it may become possible for society to bring back to life those who have died -- through now unimaginable technologies.  I have to imagine that if this is possible it will be done.  Then there will be the question of whether or not such a resurrected person "really" is me.

I am not sure that is possibly for everyone, as some have lived and died alone I am sure, but if everyone did return, it would be awful crowded wouldn't it? We would strip the entire planet of resources in a matter of month's wouldn't we?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who




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