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California doing stupid stuff again..........


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#31    spartan max2

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:07 AM

Personally I don't see why we have two separate bathrooms for people in the first place.

But that's probably because I just don't care about who see's me doing my business.


But I guess when it comes to people changing that is a different story.

Edited by spartan max2, 14 August 2013 - 02:08 AM.

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#32    Ratte

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:12 AM

View PostJeremiah65, on 14 August 2013 - 01:58 AM, said:



When I went to Junior High and high school (yes, junior high...before "middle school") the boys and girls locker rooms were big wide open rooms and one gigantic shower with about 20 or 30 shower heads.  The last High school locker room I was in a couple of years ago looked just like ours did.

So how ya gonna deal with that?  Put in private stalls and private toilets?  Kinda pricey don't ya think?  That was my initial post....why not put in separate facilities with a big "?" for those that want them....California is already in debt to it's eyeballs...why not p!ss away some more money for the heck of it?
Or people could not be so uptight. Either transgender individual will have to urinate in a stall since- one, a male who wants to be female would want to do things as a female, including sitting down to pee which, as far as I remember, has to be done in a stall, and females kinda have to sit down to pee, unless they have those little cone things, but those are hard to find so no urinal for them!

As for showers and changing rooms, well, transgender individuals are usually not very comfortable with their bodies and go out of their way to hide them (ya know, since they feel they were born with the wrong parts and all).

And really, does anyone shower at school anymore? No one did at either of the schools I attended... Except the atheletes- after school. In which case, a transgender individual could go home and shower there.

It's hard enough being trans in the first place, when people don't understand why, then we gotta go and add another layer of crap to it.

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#33    Likely Guy

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:16 AM

View PostJeremiah65, on 14 August 2013 - 01:58 AM, said:



When I went to Junior High and high school (yes, junior high...before the time of "middle school") the boys and girls locker rooms were big wide open rooms and one gigantic shower with about 20 or 30 shower heads.  The last High school locker room I was in a couple of years ago looked just like ours did.  Gym locker rooms are not and have never been "private"...

So how ya gonna deal with that?  Put in private shower stalls and private toilets?  Kinda pricey don't ya think?  

That was my initial post....why not put in separate bathroom (toilet) facilities with a big "?" for those that want them....California is already in debt to it's eyeballs...why not p!ss away some more money for the heck of it?

One shared wall and a door separating each shower stall (like a toilet stall) doesn't sound that expensive to me. Retrofitting in a whole different changing room/shower/toilets, sounds way more expensive.


#34    Jeremiah65

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:21 AM

View PostRatte, on 14 August 2013 - 02:12 AM, said:

*snipped for brevity

Ratte, don't get the wrong idea about my views on this.  I personally do not care what consenting people do...it is not my concern.

I am first and foremost a defender of personal freedoms and personal responsibility.  Same sex marriage?  Don't care...marry your mailbox if you want to...makes no matter to me.

However...this "idea" is now possibly infringing upon the freedoms of others...if you can see beyond the moment.  Just as the LGBT community wants freedoms to marry and express themselves...others should be "free" to not have to be a part of it.  You are free to do whatever you choose as long as your freedoms do not impose on the freedoms of another.

I am a Libertarian politically and I embrace the Philosophy of freedom.

Want to do drugs?  I do not care...your problem,not mine.
Want to have a same sex marriage?  I do not care...does not effect my life in any way, shape or form.
want to be a prostitute?  I do not care....
Want to have an abortion?  None of my business...between you, your family, your doctor and whatever God you might pray to.

on and on...I believe people should be free...and as said above....as long as their "freedom" does not hinder or impose the freedoms of another...

Edited by Jeremiah65, 14 August 2013 - 02:24 AM.

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#35    Ratte

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:45 AM

View PostJeremiah65, on 14 August 2013 - 02:21 AM, said:

on and on...I believe people should be free...and as said above....as long as their "freedom" does not hinder or impose the freedoms of another...
I see what you are saying, but the two directly clash.

Take my situation for example. I look like a male with breasts. People often stare at me for a few seconds before attempting a "sir" or "ma'am" and I've gotten used to that. I even find it funny sometimes. But when I go to a public restroom, it's like; 'Okay, so, do I want to risk getting beat up or do I want to hear people talk [expletive deleted] about me?' I usually go with the trash talk and use the women's restroom. When there's other people in there, I get stared at, whispered about. Sometimes I want to say to these people "What? Do I have to show you my [female genitals] before I can take a leak behind this closed door?!" But I don't. It's not worth starting a fight. It's not worth giving a bad name to my trans brothers and sisters. I just want to urinate and go back to grocery shopping or browsing the library or whatever it is I was doing before hand.

I'm sorry for being standoffish, but this whole restroom issue is an unnecessary pain in my rear.

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#36    MiskatonicGrad

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 03:03 AM

Wait a minute are they saying that they are going to let teenage boys decide which locker room they use?? really?

when I was a teenager I know I would have said just about anything to get into the girls locker room.

so I think I can see where this is heading.

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#37    F3SS

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 03:20 AM

Mixed sports? Not all of them. Wait until the first tomboy gets her bones crushed in a game of football.
As for the bathroom deal... No way. How about using the word NO and quit coddling every kid with an issue. They may not accept who they are but they should have to deal with it, not everybody else.


#38    Ratte

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 03:37 AM

View PostF3SS, on 14 August 2013 - 03:20 AM, said:

Mixed sports? Not all of them. Wait until the first tomboy gets her bones crushed in a game of football.
As for the bathroom deal... No way. How about using the word NO and quit coddling every kid with an issue. They may not accept who they are but they should have to deal with it, not everybody else.
Uh, I crushed boys bones, not the other way around. If a girl can play, a girl can play.

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#39    Zaphod222

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 03:55 AM

View PostMyles, on 13 August 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

"Gov. Brown signs bill making California first state to allow transgender students to pick the restrooms they want to use, and the sports teams they want to play on, based on their gender identity."



I just don't understand how you could allow boys (physically) to play on girls sports teams.   It isn't fair for the typical girls to have to compete with boys.  Although that sounds chauvinistic, it really isn't my intention.




I suggest there will be lots of new self-declared transgender students --- taking showers and playing sports with the girls would have been of some interest to me as a teenager, lol

NB: "Stupid law" and "California" in one sentence are almost a given...

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#40    travelnjones

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 04:32 AM

View PostRatte, on 14 August 2013 - 12:01 AM, said:

Why?

I'm modest


#41    Ratte

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 04:38 AM

View Posttravelnjones, on 14 August 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:

I'm modest

I don't see why it would matter if you were both in different stalls, though. I mean, I know it's awkward to go number two in a public restroom... But it's not like anyone else can see it.

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#42    Jeremiah65

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 05:09 AM

View PostRatte, on 14 August 2013 - 02:45 AM, said:

I see what you are saying, but the two directly clash.

Take my situation for example. I look like a male with breasts. People often stare at me for a few seconds before attempting a "sir" or "ma'am" and I've gotten used to that. I even find it funny sometimes. But when I go to a public restroom, it's like; 'Okay, so, do I want to risk getting beat up or do I want to hear people talk [expletive deleted] about me?' I usually go with the trash talk and use the women's restroom. When there's other people in there, I get stared at, whispered about. Sometimes I want to say to these people "What? Do I have to show you my [female genitals] before I can take a leak behind this closed door?!" But I don't. It's not worth starting a fight. It's not worth giving a bad name to my trans brothers and sisters. I just want to urinate and go back to grocery shopping or browsing the library or whatever it is I was doing before hand.

I'm sorry for being standoffish, but this whole restroom issue is an unnecessary pain in my rear.

I can see where one not all that familiar with the Philosophy of Freedom might think there is a clash...but there is not.

I am free to do whatever I choose behind closed doors.   I can do drugs, play video games or sit around naked all day and watch porn....that is my choice, my prerogative and my freedom.  I do not, however, expect my neighbor to allow me to do those things in his house...or on the sidewalk out in front of our houses.

There is a social etiquette that we are expected to adhere to.  I do not fondle my wife or slobber kiss all over her out in public and I expect the same from everyone else...regardless of sexual orientation.  It's called having tact and class.

I cannot say I understand your dilemma.  It is a unique situation.

It's not complicated....you are free to live as you wish.  As the first line of my signature says...."Liberty means responsibility...which is why most men dread it".  For everything there can be rewards or consequences...that is what we Libertarians mean when we say we believe in personal freedom AND responsibility.  I make a choice...I get to reap the rewards...or suffer the consequences.  It is not up to anyone else to pay for my mistakes...nor should I have to share my rewards.


You have expressed not enjoying the ways of the past and want to see major changes.  That is fine...however, swinging the pendulum back to the extreme on the other side now puts other people in the exact place you did not like being in....is that acceptable?...No...it's not.

Class, etiquette, social grace and common sense....from everyone...straight, LBGT...doesn't matter.  This "idea" in California is none of those things...it is an invasion into other people's lives just as much as refusing the LGBT community from legal social unions or marriage is.

You are free to live your life as you see fit as long as your freedom does not hinder or impose upon the freedoms of another.  

It is not and never will be ok to repeat the past and give someone freedom at the expense of someone else...

Edited by Jeremiah65, 14 August 2013 - 05:20 AM.

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

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#43    Ratte

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 05:18 AM

So, basically I don't get to use either restroom, right?
Because both are uncomfortable with me.

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#44    acidhead

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 05:27 AM

View PostRatte, on 14 August 2013 - 05:18 AM, said:

So, basically I don't get to use either restroom, right?
Because both are uncomfortable with me.

thats for you to figure out... youre not a victim... you are a human being... accept who you are and choose wisely in your decisions in life



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#45    Ratte

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 05:33 AM

View Postacidhead, on 14 August 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

thats for you to figure out... youre not a victim... you are a human being... accept who you are and choose wisely in your decisions in life
My comment was more to prove a point. I usually use the women's to avoid physical conflict (though I'm more than capable of handling it), I just don't want to give every transgender a bad name.

A toilet is a toilet to me.

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