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Views on Magick

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#16    Professor T

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 05:21 AM

I think there is definitely something in Magick, but the results are subtle down here in our mundane world.

Science on the other hand has results that are by far much more substantial.. But when you consider the genesis of modern sciences which were born of Alchemy, Astrology,  and a few other Magick tricks, one can see that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. A world without Magick would be a pretty boring if you ask me.


#17    shrooma

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 05:44 AM

View PostKazahel, on 19 August 2013 - 04:18 AM, said:



That reminds me of a Bible verse. It's funny, I don't know much of the Bible but I always get reminded of it. It's probably out of context but anyway..

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was with God in the beginning.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
.
i've always wondered about that particular verse myself Kazahel, as the way I read it, it implies  a creator OF gods- HE was with god, and through HIM all things were made.
it wouldn't sound strange if you added the words 'including god' at the end.....

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#18    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 08:26 AM

View PostKazahel, on 19 August 2013 - 04:18 AM, said:

That reminds me of a Bible verse. It's funny, I don't know much of the Bible but I always get reminded of it. It's probably out of context but anyway..

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was with God in the beginning.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
int his case, I think "Word" means thought, so it's the thought of God and how it created all things.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

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#19    shrooma

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 08:35 AM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 19 August 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:


int his case, I think "Word" means thought, so it's the thought of God and how it created all things.
.
but who was the guy who was with god Col.
would he be the witness that watchtower sellers keep going on about....?
:-)

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#20    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 08:38 AM

View Postshrooma, on 19 August 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

.
but who was the guy who was with god Col.
would he be the witness that watchtower sellers keep going on about....?
:-)
It depends, as it always does, what verison you're looking at. The KJV, my favourite version, has it "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with god, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God."

So what can we make of that? Perhpas it's talking about Jesus, which is what John was talking about after all.

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#21    shrooma

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 09:09 AM

could be Col. could be- jesus & god were one and the same after all.....

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#22    Ryu

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 12:26 PM

View PostProfessor T, on 19 August 2013 - 05:21 AM, said:

A world without Magick would be a pretty boring if you ask me.

Really? How so?
I would have thought that since science is always discovering something new and revising and refining its findings that this alone would be far more rewarding than flailing your hands and waving a stick around.

I man, sure, magic is fine for fantasy but using it to explain reality? Sorry but isn't that what ignorant children do?


#23    Purplos

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 01:46 PM

I'm not a practicing anything, to begin with.

I always thought 'magick' was more of a process that pagans or non-mono-theists used to perform their religion, basically. The rituals etc. used to bring about some change either internal or external. It's not fairy godmothers, fireballs, love potions and *poof* there's a bunny stuff.

Much like Catholics lighting candles, using a rosary and praying repeatedly to change their reality.

It's all pretty much the same thing.

I'm teaching myself tarot. It's fun.  :)

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#24    bLu3 de 3n3rgy

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 02:02 PM

Magick works when the person utilising it understands the cause and effect relationship between the inner and outer and intention and direction of will, it is a gateway (one of many) into harnessing the energetics or universal law of order/creation.  Whether it can work for you or not just depends what kind of person you are and how you best motivate and organise yourself to accomplish things. For some magick would be frustrating and not worth the energy, as they perhaps have a better way to plan,  manifest / create goals and don't see the point in using a tool like this.

Everyone has a method/ mechanism really, just that those who tend to be drawn into magick and the lifestyle obviously have an infinity with it that can be rewarding in an artistry skilled way,  and find it works as a tool very well for taking control of ones life and managing the ups and downs. In that sense it can be very therapeutic and if so who is to bash it ?  If you are someone who finds it difficult to manifest what you need then maybe looking at magick / ritual would help you focus and clarify what it is you really are trying to do.

And Ryu, children are far less ignorant than adults in that sense, unfortunately children have to grow up in an incredibley ignorant society that tries to program and educate us into linear thinking drones, we have too many adults who have lost their sense of inner child and therefore innate connection to magick.

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#25    bassai26

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 02:38 PM

As we know magic has tricks but "magic" will remain magic if the people seeing it "unexplainable" while the magician retains its mystery :yes:


#26    Professor T

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 05:19 AM

View PostRyu, on 19 August 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

Really? How so?
I would have thought that since science is always discovering something new and revising and refining its findings that this alone would be far more rewarding than flailing your hands and waving a stick around.

I man, sure, magic is fine for fantasy but using it to explain reality? Sorry but isn't that what ignorant children do?
Putting science aside, my preconceptions about Magick, which are probably wrong is more than mere facts, figures and formulations. Magick is IMO, achieved through a state of mind, a Zen, A place within all of us where thoughts are things, where inspiration and imagination isn't smothered by the limitations imposed upon us by reason, law or logic.. I'm not one to wave a magic wand and mutter hocus pocus, nor pour scorn upon those that do.. But when I think about Magic and what it's like to live a magical world I tend to go back to my youth when the world was truly a magical place. Dang would I love to live in that world again... So for me, I guess, Magic is a state of mind, a feeling of wonder, of inspiration.. Without that feeling, yep, the world would be a pretty boring place fill of limitations..
Don't get me wrong, science also rings my bell and is full of new discoveries and awe inspiring stuff. But when it comes to the crunch, I don't think the great scientists and thinkers of the ages ever step far from the Magick in their lives.. Something has to drive or guide them towards making their discoveries.. Necessity isn't the only mother of invention IMO.


#27    Ryu

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 12:41 PM

View PostProfessor T, on 20 August 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

... So for me, I guess, Magic is a state of mind, a feeling of wonder, of inspiration.. Without that feeling, yep, the world would be a pretty boring place fill of limitations..


I guess I just don't get it. When I was a kid I just never seen the world as magical because such things were never actively encouraged.
I never pretended to see fairies or imaginary things really because such things were never encouraged.

For me reality was focused on, not magic.

I think one of the reasons we even HAVE science is because people got tired of the old "it's magic" routine and wanted a real answer.

Many people say it is all in the mind when speaking of magic and it probably is, saying an incantation, so you can find that car you've been looking for, is fun but you still need to look at the ads and actually go out shopping. Real action gets results is what I guess I am trying to say.


View PostbLu3 de 3n3rgy, on 19 August 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

And Ryu, children are far less ignorant than adults in that sense, unfortunately children have to grow up in an incredibly ignorant society that tries to program and educate us into linear thinking drones, we have too many adults who have lost their sense of inner child and therefore innate connection to magick.

I guess just don't see why we should feel we need magic in real life. It is great for fantasy but has no function in real life. As I have said, children ARE ignorant, this is why we teach them  how to think and how to observe and how not to jump to a conclusion just because it is the easiest.

I do agree, however, that we rather tend to encourage a one-track mind type thinking but overall I think that we are not doing any harm by teaching critical thinking. Magic should never be a part of it. Fine for fantasy and personal hobbies but that's it I guess.

Sorry if I sound obscure, it's early, hot and I'm hungry.

Edited by Ryu, 21 August 2013 - 12:42 PM.


#28    Red Howler

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 01:03 PM

There is also the feeling of magic. Anything that generates positive emotion is magic. Creation itself is magic. Science uses magic, if you want to look at it that way.  People 200 years ago would find our modern technology really magical.

Yes I believe in magic.


#29    Ryu

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 01:09 PM

"Magic" is just a word then because we don't have anything better to describe an emotional response, right? Cool. I get it.


#30    bLu3 de 3n3rgy

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 03:08 PM

View PostRyu, on 21 August 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

I guess just don't see why we should feel we need magic in real life. It is great for fantasy but has no function in real life. As I have said, children ARE ignorant, this is why we teach them  how to think and how to observe and how not to jump to a conclusion just because it is the easiest.

I do agree, however, that we rather tend to encourage a one-track mind type thinking but overall I think that we are not doing any harm by teaching critical thinking. Magic should never be a part of it. Fine for fantasy and personal hobbies but that's it I guess.

Sorry if I sound obscure, it's early, hot and I'm hungry.

I think you are missing point because magick is not about "pretending" to be a fairy or unicorn and prancing about in fantasy land. That would be role playing if it's about pretending, yes it is magical in it's thinking so i get why you are using that as an example, but magick in the ritual or alchemy sense is not about playing pretend, it's seen as an application, a tool, a philosophy. I don't practice magick btw, so I'm no expert on it but i do understand the fundamentals of it as i practice my own sense of ritual and energy work and consider myself to have a spiritual connection to the earth, the animals, and elements.

One thing that may be misconstrued though for fantasy is that in the tarot where you have your archetypes and symbolic meanings and relationships between the archetypes, and that each archetype stands for a certain theme/energy/ message/ spirit/ totem -- well magick is kinda the same principle, once you understand what the archetypal are and what energy they 'represent' -  from trees to fairy's to mythological gods or creatures then you begin  to realise it is about the energy and directing that energy for intentional purposes.  It's about meddling with things in the next level 'above' some call it the astral levels - but for conversation sakes we'll call it the realm where every one dreams and acts out their ego diva routines. It is in a sense the realm where even imagination can reach some sort of existence (on that realm may i say) if it is directed into as such -- see thought forms and tuplas for example.  Certain aspects of the astral levels are sometimes like an ever evolving sims game, some of it full of peoples creations and distortions, dreams and nightmares, and some of which will never make into physical 3d fruition, but of what does? you can find the blue print to that creation right there.

Anyway one part of magick is about harnessing the energies of certain chosen avatars if you like, as well as nature and elements  for the purpose of creating, changing, healing, and inspiring something. If someone wants to use "unicorn magick" or summon a unicorn ( I know I've chosen the worst possible example; but :) )  it's not to be as childish as you may think, but more to do with what does the unicorn represent to that person?, it doesn't matter that the unicorn only exists in an astral dimension somewhere or as a universal symbol of something, the point is what is its attributes and strengths as an archetypal that can be used to shape and mould the creation process of aiding something to happen.

Now that is the real magic in magick, that some have managed to achieve their goals by being able to access and harness a fuller potential of their minds/psyche than they could have otherwise. It's not that the practitioner is living in a fantasy world that they should have grown out of as a child, no, but that they have cracked the code to the power of their consciousness by applying a mechanism called magick. One that happens to work with the multi levels of consciousness that our consciousness already resides on. It's awareness that is key in this. Bringing the awareness to the other areas of us,  that we are trained to ignore and turn off for left brain dominate linear drone thinking.

In an ideal balanced world, it would be about merging and integrating left hemisphere and right hemisphere as one mind, not two thinking centres constantly in domestic with one another. Science i don't think is supposed to exist in it's own dominate sphere, but we make it so out fear for something or our society wouldn't be so one split minded. Also, Yes an extreme in right brain thinking can lead to some pretty crazy and disturbing creations, but equally so can singular left brain creations and as already witnessed in our world a huge lack of regard and compassion that often goes with it for life.

Edited by bLu3 de 3n3rgy, 21 August 2013 - 03:12 PM.

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