Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Concious evolution

evolution conciouness human potential

  • Please log in to reply
40 replies to this topic

#16    Almagest

Almagest

    Paranormal Investigator

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 790 posts
  • Joined:16 Mar 2013

Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:30 PM

That would be genetic engineering. Evolution occurs through births and deaths, whether it is done consciously (selective breeding) or unconsciously (natural selection). We can't consciously decide to darken our skin, but we can consciously decide to move to an equatorial country and hope our descendants stay long enough to pick up that adaptation(might take a couple of hundred generations, though).

Life is the result of the struggle between dynamic opposites Form & Chaos, Substance & Oblivion, Light & Dark And all the infinite variations of Yin & Yang
When the pendulum swings in favour of one It will eventually swing in favour of it's opposite Thus the balance of the universe is maintained

-Jeru the Damaja

#17    cormac mac airt

cormac mac airt

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,236 posts
  • Joined:18 Jun 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tennessee, USA

Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:36 PM

View PostAlmagest, on 19 August 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

That would be genetic engineering. Evolution occurs through births and deaths, whether it is done consciously (selective breeding) or unconsciously (natural selection). We can't consciously decide to darken our skin, but we can consciously decide to move to an equatorial country and hope our descendants stay long enough to pick up that adaptation(might take a couple of hundred generations, though).

Thanks. "Manipulation" was just the first word on my mind, but neither is "conscious evolution" such as I'm talking about, which isn't possible.

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt, 19 August 2013 - 10:40 PM.

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#18    _Only

_Only

  • Member
  • 6,451 posts
  • Joined:24 Oct 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern California

  • Did you ever grow anything in the garden of your mind? You can grow ideas, in the garden of your mind. - Mr. Rogers

Posted 19 August 2013 - 11:20 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 19 August 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

Evolution is based on physical genetics.

Correction: what people have already gathered about the subject of hereditary physical evolution is just that. Evolution isn't limited to that in our future, however. Evolving is just achieving something gradually over time. This is why it feels like you're pigeon holing the definition. So stop thinking along the lines of deciding you want your hair to become blue, and start thinking about slightly more abstract forms of achieving gradual growth in the mind, and you'll get where I, and White Crane, are coming from.

It's a sort of a 'what if' question in conscious will relating to (dare I say it now) consciousness, which really is impossible with an 'it's not possible' attitude.

I honestly didn't even make the 'consciousness' translation to the question he posed until you did, but your reply stating that human evolution is only related to physical hereditary traits was ignoring the biggest part of us; the part that isn't physical . But it is what I am referring to. If you don't believe that evolution of consciousness is really evolution and not possible here and now, then, well, there you have it. I disagree, though, or at least entertain the possibility. Which if we all did, we could theoretically start to find out what is really possible.

I think mental evolution should be confused with physical evolution. It's about that time in the budding development of the thinking man, right? Exciting stuff, hypothetically.

I love to make mashups! Click here to hear!
I also love taking pictures! Click here to see!
I love to play drums, too! Whatever you do, don't click here!

#19    cormac mac airt

cormac mac airt

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,236 posts
  • Joined:18 Jun 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tennessee, USA

Posted 19 August 2013 - 11:38 PM

View Post_Only, on 19 August 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

Correction: what people have already gathered about the subject of hereditary physical evolution is just that. Evolution isn't limited to that in our future, however. Evolving is just achieving something gradually over time. This is why it feels like you're pigeon holing the definition. So stop thinking along the lines of deciding you want your hair to become blue, and start thinking about slightly more abstract forms of achieving gradual growth in the mind, and you'll get where I, and White Crane, are coming from.

It's a sort of a 'what if' question in conscious will relating to (dare I say it now) consciousness, which really is impossible with an 'it's not possible' attitude.

I honestly didn't even make the 'consciousness' translation to the question he posed until you did, but your reply stating that human evolution is only related to physical hereditary traits was ignoring the biggest part of us; the part that isn't physical . But it is what I am referring to. If you don't believe that evolution of consciousness is really evolution and not possible here and now, then, well, there you have it. I disagree, though, or at least entertain the possibility. Which if we all did, we could theoretically start to find out what is really possible.

I think mental evolution should be confused with physical evolution. It's about that time in the budding development of the thinking man, right? Exciting stuff, hypothetically.

You're not even on the same page as White Crane, who laid out what he meant. To whit:

Quote

I mean deciding what traits we will have in the future. But not just things like hair color, I mean complete control over our genetic capabilities and life itself.

No, again he laid out exactly what he meant. The bold portion above is not about conscious will relating to consciousness, it's about physically engineering ourselves.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#20    docyabut2

docyabut2

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,946 posts
  • Joined:12 Aug 2011

Posted 20 August 2013 - 12:17 AM

The redeemer who brought the law of forgiveness into the world did just this in dying upon the cross. Father forgive them for they know not what they do ,it was his last last recorded prayer  and from that day the world was never the same again for conscious evolution began in the soul of man.


#21    docyabut2

docyabut2

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,946 posts
  • Joined:12 Aug 2011

Posted 20 August 2013 - 12:21 AM

'The Celestine Prophecy'  that was a good book:)


#22    _Only

_Only

  • Member
  • 6,451 posts
  • Joined:24 Oct 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern California

  • Did you ever grow anything in the garden of your mind? You can grow ideas, in the garden of your mind. - Mr. Rogers

Posted 20 August 2013 - 12:38 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 19 August 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

You're not even on the same page as White Crane, who laid out what he meant.



The bold portion above is not about conscious will relating to consciousness, it's about physically engineering ourselves.

Using what?! Read the next sentence! Evolution using the mind. Using our mind to shape everything is the exact page I am on! Shaping everything that exists using the mind is an exercise in shaping consciousness itself. Not just genetic capabilities, but life itself. Using the mind. Willing change.

But I won't argue any more about what I think he's saying. You can see what you like of it, ignoring the thread tags, forum section, and person posting. But I can't help but feel a bit unfairly called confused for thinking he meant the human potential of the mind, using consciousness to willfully shape his own world. I just don't want to have to keep defending myself for it when more interesting things can be talked about.

You don't seem to see buy the concept that evolution of a mind can possibly equate to evolution of that mind's world. Fine! But don't treat me like I don't understand what's going on for mentioning the idea, please!

Edited by _Only, 20 August 2013 - 12:40 AM.

I love to make mashups! Click here to hear!
I also love taking pictures! Click here to see!
I love to play drums, too! Whatever you do, don't click here!

#23    Professor T

Professor T

    Λ Ο Δ

  • Member
  • 2,388 posts
  • Joined:11 Jul 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • I'm not really a Professor so don't take my words as Gospel

Posted 20 August 2013 - 05:24 AM

View PostThe Word of Thoth, on 19 August 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

That wasnt 'The Celestine Prophecy' by any chance was it?
I don't think so..
I can't remember the book, but it was written some time in the 15th century.. German, I think..


#24    Professor T

Professor T

    Λ Ο Δ

  • Member
  • 2,388 posts
  • Joined:11 Jul 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • I'm not really a Professor so don't take my words as Gospel

Posted 20 August 2013 - 05:32 AM

I don't know if Genetic Engineering or Genetic alteration would have much to do with a conscious ability to change/evolve. Those are scientific terms designed the manipulation of genes/DNA.. I think though, that a conscious ability to alter your physical attributes at will would probably come under the umbrella of Metamorphosis.


#25    White Crane Feather

White Crane Feather

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,527 posts
  • Joined:12 Jul 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Potter: " is this real or is this in my mind?"

    Dumbledore: " Of course it's in your mind....., but that dosn't mean it's not real."

Posted 20 August 2013 - 05:41 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 19 August 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:



Which is pretty much what I understood you to mean. And you really can't call it evolution as none of the traits you, or anyone else, decides on would have evolved. What you are really talking about is genetic manipulation, and while the extent to which you're referring to is not currently possible it 'may' become possible in the future. Although I really have to question whether it's a good idea or not.

cormac


It is evolution, it's just not natural selection.... It would be artificial selection.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#26    Almagest

Almagest

    Paranormal Investigator

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 790 posts
  • Joined:16 Mar 2013

Posted 21 August 2013 - 05:53 AM

I think you could describe eugenics and ethnic cleansing as forms of conscious evolution - removing traits deemed undesirable from the gene pool.

Life is the result of the struggle between dynamic opposites Form & Chaos, Substance & Oblivion, Light & Dark And all the infinite variations of Yin & Yang
When the pendulum swings in favour of one It will eventually swing in favour of it's opposite Thus the balance of the universe is maintained

-Jeru the Damaja

#27    Arbitran

Arbitran

    Post-Singularitan Hyperturing Synthetic Intelligence

  • Member
  • 2,767 posts
  • Joined:13 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 21 August 2013 - 06:06 AM

In a way, sure, I suppose conscious evolution is possible; not on an individual level, no, of course not. But there is a name for a sort of conscious evolution: artificial selection.

Is individual, by-force-of-will evolution possible? No, absolutely not. Any more than willing yourself to defy gravity will have any outcome other than the obvious.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison

#28    Leonardo

Leonardo

    Awake

  • Member
  • 14,767 posts
  • Joined:20 Oct 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

  • Hell is a guilty conscience

Posted 21 August 2013 - 06:29 PM

View PostWhite Crane Feather, on 19 August 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

I was referring to conscious control over our evolution. I mean deciding what traits we will have in the future. But not just things like hair color, I mean complete control over our genetic capabilities and life itself. Imagine growing a starship or growing network technology instead building it, but growing it inside of your mind.I can imagine human beings merging with everything Maybe  in ways we have not thought of yet.

I'm interested in the subject because of ray curswell. He seems to think technology will grow to the point where we will be able to consciously control our entire existence and the Hunan race will merge into some sort of super being. This makes me wonder in the billions of years this universe has been around and the infinite spans before it was here if it has not already happened.

While such selective evolution is theoretically possible, I suspect it will turn out to be practically (as in materially) impossible. The decoding of the human genome is considered 'complete', but decoding that genome does not tell us which alleles are responsible for which traits. This can only occur through either matching DNA with known conditions to a 'baseline' DNA sample (and thus seeing where the mutations causing that condition occur), or through trial and error recombination of DNA looking specifically for selected traits.

The former is being done already, but reveals very limited data regarding the entire constitution of the human genome and what areas of it affect what traits, while the second is currently considered 'unethical' as the only way to determine the traits have been selected would be to grow a new entity from the combined genetic material. Computer mapping can project areas of potential for certain traits, but it cannot be known without the actual organism (a human being.)

Add to this the sheer complexity involved, where certain traits are bound to be mapped to multiple, and often over-lapping with other traits, areas on the genome, and the logistics of such a feat as truly selective genetic engineering is rendered practically impossible.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#29    Big Bad Voodoo

Big Bad Voodoo

    High priest of Darwinism

  • Member
  • 9,582 posts
  • Joined:15 Nov 2010
  • Gender:Male

Posted 12 October 2013 - 07:46 PM

View PostArbitran, on 21 August 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

In a way, sure, I suppose conscious evolution is possible; not on an individual level, no, of course not. But there is a name for a sort of conscious evolution: artificial selection.

Is individual, by-force-of-will evolution possible? No, absolutely not. Any more than willing yourself to defy gravity will have any outcome other than the obvious.

Wait what?? Artificial selection is conscious evolution. Brilliant. (sarcasm)

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#30    Arbitran

Arbitran

    Post-Singularitan Hyperturing Synthetic Intelligence

  • Member
  • 2,767 posts
  • Joined:13 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 12 October 2013 - 09:15 PM

View PostBig Bad Voodoo, on 12 October 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

Wait what?? Artificial selection is conscious evolution. Brilliant. (sarcasm)

A sort of conscious evolution. It operates under the same principles as evolution, but it is consciously and intelligently directed.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users