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Is ufology infected by materialism?


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#1    UM-Bot

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 12:25 PM

<strong class='bbc'>Image credit: stockxpert</strong>
Image credit: stockxpert
William B Stoecker: Philosophical materialists believe that the primary reality is matter, or, in the parlance of modern physics, mass/energy and space/time...the observable, measurable physical universe. The mind is merely a series of electrochemical reactions in the brain and there is no afterlife, no God, and no moral absolutes. Yet, ultimately, materialists cannot define matter, energy, space, or time. By contrast, philosophical idealists believe that the primary reality is mind/thought/consciousness/soul/spirit... which they cannot define. The mind in a sense dreams the universe; indeed, all the universe is but a great thought. If the idealists are correct, there probably is an afterlife, and, for all of us to be at least roughly on the same page, perceiving at least approximately the same universe (otherwise we could not interact with one another or with the rest of the universe) our minds must be connected at some higher level, forming a greater, or universal mind... God. I must admit at this point that I have become convinced that idealism is the correct view. After all, how can we be absolutely certain that the material universe out there is real and independent of our thoughts?

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#2    bmk1245

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 12:43 PM

Heh, this piece "masterpiece" reminded me about this event:

Quote

(September 1989, USSR) The Soviet Union is home to a growing number of psychics and mentalists. One of them, E. Frenkel, became convinced that he could use his powers to stop vehicles in their tracks. He believed that "in extraordinary conditions of a direct threat to my organism, all my reserves will be called into action."

Frenkel started small -- a bicycle here, an automobile there -- before graduating to streetcars. Finally, he devised an ultimate test of his psychic power: he would halt a freight train in its tracks.

The engineer of the train that ran Frenkel over saw him toss his briefcase aside, and step onto the tracks with arms raised, head lowered, and body tensed. The engineer applied the emergency brakes, but it was too late.

The mentalist psyched himself out.
(link)
:lol:

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#3    Rlyeh

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 01:28 PM

Ufology is infected by kooks like William B Stoecker.


#4    Skithia

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 12:32 PM

Im sorry I usually enjoy reading your columns - dont believe a word of them but enjoy them - til this one - you lost me at intelligent design.


#5    Almagest

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 04:33 PM

Energy, matter, space and time are undefined? Sure we don't know everything about the universe, but the legacy of the materialist far surpasses that of meta-physicists. The former gave us science, technology, and better, longer lives. If it were up to the latter we wouldn't even know that the Earth was not the centre of the Universe, and wouldn't even be speculating about Extra-terrestrials.

I'll admit there is a lot that we do not know about the Universe and it's physical laws, but if our experience is anything to go on, then I strongly doubt that ET would be both star-faring and metaphysically minded.

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#6    Mindscanner

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 12:12 AM

I think there are a lot of things that we don't know about that we can put into words in human's language to describe certain matter in the universe and beyond. would human's language evolve then if we finally found the true answers to all the quests about universe? therefore, there are a lot of things that human should learn in discovery which would lead to a new term of calling for certain finding. I believe that the relativity theory does not only apply to the materialism aspect of discovery.

Edited by Mindscanner, 28 August 2013 - 12:16 AM.


#7    Gold Star

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 08:43 PM

Ufology caught its materialism from science-minded persons already infected
with materialism who would apply the scientific method to any and all phenomena.
The scientific method is bound to fail where the objects of study are considerably
more intelligent and technologically advanced than the scientists. To be fair, as
scientific instruments become increasingly sensitive and powerful, psychic and
spiritual phenomena will become more accessible to providing hard, replicable
data for scientists to analyze.


#8    Rlyeh

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 09:38 AM

View PostGold Star, on 18 September 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

Ufology caught its materialism from science-minded persons already infected
with materialism who would apply the scientific method to any and all phenomena.
The scientific method is bound to fail where the objects of study are considerably
more intelligent and technologically advanced than the scientists. To be fair, as
scientific instruments become increasingly sensitive and powerful, psychic and
spiritual phenomena will become more accessible to providing hard, replicable
data for scientists to analyze.
When has con artists.. sorry psychics actually discovered *anything*? Well besides human gullibility..

Edited by Rlyeh, 19 September 2013 - 09:41 AM.


#9    Mark56

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 05:18 AM

I have one little problem with Scientific Materialism and don't get me wrong, I have a lot of faith in science/materialism it takes care of a lot of our day to day needs and wants and the general plumbing of our universe; however materialism views that all is someTHING. I ,though, have to think of myself as someBODY.  The materialist will tell you it's just some egotistical part of the brain that makes you feel that way. They'll tell you that consciousness will be defined someday and that it'll turn out to be just another brain function/computation of the brain.

I fiercely resist this. I am somebody, however infinitesimal I am in this universe. I'm in this world for a very short period of time and I have a chance to make some positive change before I die. I feel to do that you have to be somebody.

"Many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."

-William James

#10    Rlyeh

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 10:22 AM

View PostMark56, on 16 February 2014 - 05:18 AM, said:

I have one little problem with Scientific Materialism and don't get me wrong, I have a lot of faith in science/materialism it takes care of a lot of our day to day needs and wants and the general plumbing of our universe; however materialism views that all is someTHING. I ,though, have to think of myself as someBODY.  The materialist will tell you it's just some egotistical part of the brain that makes you feel that way. They'll tell you that consciousness will be defined someday and that it'll turn out to be just another brain function/computation of the brain.

I fiercely resist this. I am somebody, however infinitesimal I am in this universe. I'm in this world for a very short period of time and I have a chance to make some positive change before I die. I feel to do that you have to be somebody.
So you don't like being a thing?


#11    spacecowboy342

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 04:30 PM

View PostMark56, on 16 February 2014 - 05:18 AM, said:

I have one little problem with Scientific Materialism and don't get me wrong, I have a lot of faith in science/materialism it takes care of a lot of our day to day needs and wants and the general plumbing of our universe; however materialism views that all is someTHING. I ,though, have to think of myself as someBODY.  The materialist will tell you it's just some egotistical part of the brain that makes you feel that way. They'll tell you that consciousness will be defined someday and that it'll turn out to be just another brain function/computation of the brain.

I fiercely resist this. I am somebody, however infinitesimal I am in this universe. I'm in this world for a very short period of time and I have a chance to make some positive change before I die. I feel to do that you have to be somebody.
Materialism states what you are, but says nothing about how you should feel about yourself or your place in the universe. Overall compared to the rest of the universe we may seem insignificant, but as our brains are amazingly complex and are the only known bits of matter that can contemplate these issues we would still seem pretty relevant in the universe


#12    psyche101

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 03:26 AM

View PostGold Star, on 18 September 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

Ufology caught its materialism from science-minded persons already infected with materialism who would apply the scientific method to any and all phenomena.

And yet UFOlogy in the same breath claims science does not take UFOlogy seriously. Can you lot make you freaking mind up please? Not serious, or too serious? Which is it?

And what exactly is wrong with scientific method? Can yo pretend I am like 2 years old and spell it out to me? Taking small steps and verifying each one as yo go seem a darn good idea to me, if one seeks the truth?

View PostGold Star, on 18 September 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

The scientific method is bound to fail where the objects of study are considerably more intelligent and technologically advanced than the scientists.

Why? That sounds pretty silly actually, we observe Gravity, yet science will openly admit it has not a clue how it works. Does that mean gravity is "fake"? Let's hope not for both our sakes huh.

View PostGold Star, on 18 September 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

To be fair, as scientific instruments become increasingly sensitive and powerful, psychic and spiritual phenomena will become more accessible to providing hard, replicable data for scientists to analyze.

Bwahaha, yeah, like 20 billion dollars and decades of failed studies are not enough for you, because you just know don't you!

Keep telling yourself that, LOL. Maybe one day you too will actually believe it! I cannot see a thinking person believing it though. Most see decades of constant failure as a decent indicator. People like you are why people like Uri Geller and Peter Popoff take advantage of innocent people.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#13    spacecowboy342

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 03:32 AM

View PostGold Star, on 18 September 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

Ufology caught its materialism from science-minded persons already infected
with materialism who would apply the scientific method to any and all phenomena.
The scientific method is bound to fail where the objects of study are considerably
more intelligent and technologically advanced than the scientists. To be fair, as
scientific instruments become increasingly sensitive and powerful, psychic and
spiritual phenomena will become more accessible to providing hard, replicable
data for scientists to analyze.
People actually applying the scientific method to all phenomena? You say this like it's a bad thing. Just how do you figure that such an approach is doomed to fail? I eagerly await any replicable evidence for spiritual or psychic data. Not holding my breath though.


#14    psyche101

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 03:33 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 21 August 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

Ufology is infected by kooks like William B Stoecker.

It's almost the entire ET section condensed into one crazy thread isn't it. Intelligent design, thought induced universes, and moon structures.

Good God, moon structures.

Ohh, didn't you just love the bit about NASA apparently hiding that Mars "almost certainly" had life and are probably not being totally honest about the conditions there today?

I think Mr Stoecker is vying for a job with Vanity Fair or Pravda.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#15    spacecowboy342

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 03:35 AM

or Fox News





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