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Juno's Gravity Assist & Helical Gravitons

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#1    NatureBoff

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:41 PM

With respect to the forthcoming Juno spacecraft due for an Earth flyby gravity acceleration on Oct 9th 2013, it's easier to explain with an Archimedes screw model of particles gravitons than "spacetime fabric".

If one imagines that gravity is due to clockwise spinning right-handed Archimedes screw particles, which emanate out from the Earth in a straight line, then this explains the force relative to our planet when they interact with another body. When Juno approaches Earth towards the Sun, the gravitons also have a velocity of the Earth relative to the Sun. This 'extra' motion is then transferred to Juno as it passes close by, which accelerates the spacecraft relative to the Sun.

Or can anyone give me the mainstream alternative to the Archimedes graviton model?



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Edited by NatureBoff, 23 August 2013 - 03:41 PM.

The object, known by the locals as "Bicho Voador" (Flying Animal), or "Bicho Sugador" (Sucking Animal), has the shape of a rounded ship and attacks people in isolation.

#2    NatureBoff

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:54 PM

Here's a useful link for more information on the mission Juno Mission & Trajectory Design

The object, known by the locals as "Bicho Voador" (Flying Animal), or "Bicho Sugador" (Sucking Animal), has the shape of a rounded ship and attacks people in isolation.

#3    NatureBoff

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:04 AM

So I can assume that the Archimedes screw model is easier to understand than the "spacetime fabric" explanation for Juno's gravity assist due in 8 weeks time?

The object, known by the locals as "Bicho Voador" (Flying Animal), or "Bicho Sugador" (Sucking Animal), has the shape of a rounded ship and attacks people in isolation.

#4    sepulchrave

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 01:35 PM

View PostNatureBoff, on 24 August 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

So I can assume that the Archimedes screw model is easier to understand than the "spacetime fabric" explanation for Juno's gravity assist due in 8 weeks time?
You can assume whatever you want. I, on the other hand, will continue to reject your theory.

The trajectory for Juno's gravity assist was calculated using General Relativity.

I hope you understand what that means: the scientists and engineers decided what trajectory they wanted Juno to have, and then they explicitly calculated the appropriate course adjustments and gravity boosts necessary to achieve this trajectory.

If Juno goes where it is supposed to go, this will be a success for General Relativity (as have been the many, many, many satellites and probe course corrections done in the past).

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Rather than argue about the inadequacies of your model again, I would like to challenge you to actually make a prediction:

Will Juno experience a flyby anomaly, and if so, will it be positive or negative?


#5    NatureBoff

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 03:54 PM

View Postsepulchrave, on 25 August 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

You can assume whatever you want. I, on the other hand, will continue to reject your theory.

The trajectory for Juno's gravity assist was calculated using General Relativity.

I hope you understand what that means: the scientists and engineers decided what trajectory they wanted Juno to have, and then they explicitly calculated the appropriate course adjustments and gravity boosts necessary to achieve this trajectory.

If Juno goes where it is supposed to go, this will be a success for General Relativity (as have been the many, many, many satellites and probe course corrections done in the past).

-----------
Rather than argue about the inadequacies of your model again, I would like to challenge you to actually make a prediction:

Will Juno experience a flyby anomaly, and if so, will it be positive or negative?
Okay, thanks for the challenge. Incidentally, Juno's calculated trajectory is only approximate and an adjuster will be needed after it's gravity assist. It isn't quite as precise as you might like to think.

I'm predicting that if there is a flyby anomaly, it will be large and positive. I'm basing this on the deduction that the force acts on the fluids within the spacecraft. Due it still having half way to go with fuel needed to enter a satisfactory Jupiter orbit, then there is still going to roughly half the fuel left. The positive acceleration is due to the motion of Earth towards the Sun which is needed for the gravity assist. The additional 'left-handed' spinning gravitons should also create an additional force of attraction and forward motion, similarly to the regular gravitons. This is in proportion to the amount of fluid fuel aboard. Whether a flyby anomaly will occur at all, is something I'm less certain of. But due the trajectory traversing the equatorial regions and at such a low altitude, I believe the chances will be high. This uncertainty is due to the apparent irregular nature of this assumed neutron-neutron annihilation taking place in the Earth's core and the nature of the 'beams' produced at the surface which propagate outwards.

In all, I'm predicting a positive acceleration anomaly that will be significantly larger than any other seen before. It will become a sensation and be in the glare of the media spotlight. I'm counting down the weeks as we speak.

Edited by NatureBoff, 25 August 2013 - 03:56 PM.

The object, known by the locals as "Bicho Voador" (Flying Animal), or "Bicho Sugador" (Sucking Animal), has the shape of a rounded ship and attacks people in isolation.

#6    NatureBoff

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 05:03 PM

I also predict a signature lateral deviation to the left.

The object, known by the locals as "Bicho Voador" (Flying Animal), or "Bicho Sugador" (Sucking Animal), has the shape of a rounded ship and attacks people in isolation.

#7    Insanity

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:37 PM

View PostNatureBoff, on 25 August 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Okay, thanks for the challenge. Incidentally, Juno's calculated trajectory is only approximate and an adjuster will be needed after it's gravity assist. It isn't quite as precise as you might like to think.

I'm predicting that if there is a flyby anomaly, it will be large and positive. I'm basing this on the deduction that the force acts on the fluids within the spacecraft. Due it still having half way to go with fuel needed to enter a satisfactory Jupiter orbit, then there is still going to roughly half the fuel left. The positive acceleration is due to the motion of Earth towards the Sun which is needed for the gravity assist. The additional 'left-handed' spinning gravitons should also create an additional force of attraction and forward motion, similarly to the regular gravitons. This is in proportion to the amount of fluid fuel aboard. Whether a flyby anomaly will occur at all, is something I'm less certain of. But due the trajectory traversing the equatorial regions and at such a low altitude, I believe the chances will be high. This uncertainty is due to the apparent irregular nature of this assumed neutron-neutron annihilation taking place in the Earth's core and the nature of the 'beams' produced at the surface which propagate outwards.

In all, I'm predicting a positive acceleration anomaly that will be significantly larger than any other seen before. It will become a sensation and be in the glare of the media spotlight. I'm counting down the weeks as we speak.

I'm sorry, but "I'm predicting that if there is a flyby anomaly, it will be large and positive." is not a prediction, it is at best a guess.

One of the tests conducted in an attempt to verify Einstein's theory of relativity was measuring the angle that the light of a star was deflected as it passed near the sun.  Einstein's theory of relativity predicted an angle of 1.75 arcseconds, while the dominant theory at the time, Newton's law of gravity, predicted an angle half of that.  When the measurements were completed, Einstein's theory was correct.

Predictions made by scientific hypotheses normally have a precise value perhaps with a +/- error.
What is your prediction that the deviation will be?

"We see things only as we are constructed to see them, and can gain no idea of their absolute nature. With five feeble senses we pretend to comprehend the boundlessly complex cosmos, yet other beings with wider, stronger, or different range of senses might not only see very differently the things we see, but might see and study whole worlds of matter, energy, and life which lie close at hand yet can never be detected with the senses we have." - H.P. Lovecraft, "From Beyond" Published 1934

#8    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:47 PM

View PostNatureBoff, on 24 August 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

So I can assume that the Archimedes screw model is easier to understand than the "spacetime fabric" explanation for Juno's gravity assist due in 8 weeks time?
Since when has easy to understand = correct.

I could explain gravity in terms of tiny invisible animals which grab hold of objects with mass and, swimming in the ether push the objects together. It is remarkably easy to understand. It is also nonsense.

What it does have in common with your hypothesis is that they share the same amount of evidence... none at all.

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#9    NatureBoff

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 03:49 AM

View PostInsanity, on 25 August 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

I'm sorry, but "I'm predicting that if there is a flyby anomaly, it will be large and positive." is not a prediction, it is at best a guess.
You've conveniently ignored my prediction of an additional anomaly of a lateral deviation to the left of it's flightpath, analogous to the lateral deviation recorded by data recorders of the 777 SFO airliner crash Jul 2013.

Quote

As the airplane descended between 500 feet and 200 feet, they experienced a “lateral deviation” and continued to fly too low

Source: Autothrottle Function Probed in Asiana 777 Crash

Not only am I making the prediction of the spacecraft Earth flyby anomaly, but I'm predicting that this same anomaly is the cause of most aircraft malfunctions and crashes.

The object, known by the locals as "Bicho Voador" (Flying Animal), or "Bicho Sugador" (Sucking Animal), has the shape of a rounded ship and attacks people in isolation.

#10    NatureBoff

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 04:03 AM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 25 August 2013 - 11:47 PM, said:

Since when has easy to understand = correct.

I could explain gravity in terms of tiny invisible animals which grab hold of objects with mass and, swimming in the ether push the objects together. It is remarkably easy to understand. It is also nonsense.

What it does have in common with your hypothesis is that they share the same amount of evidence... none at all.
The difference is that I've submitted my idea of an Archimedes screw particle mechanism to explain the gravity force in essay form to a prestigious physics competition held by FQXi. It was well received by other entrants. I had positive personal email correspondence with David Tong, Professor of Theoretical Physics at the University of Cambridge, who was awarded a second prize in the competition as it happens.

Reality Was Born Analog But Will Digital Die?

The object, known by the locals as "Bicho Voador" (Flying Animal), or "Bicho Sugador" (Sucking Animal), has the shape of a rounded ship and attacks people in isolation.

#11    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 04:17 AM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 25 August 2013 - 11:47 PM, said:


I could explain gravity in terms of tiny invisible animals which grab hold of objects with mass and, swimming in the ether push the objects together. It is remarkably easy to understand. It is also nonsense.



So... you're saying that gravitation turtles AREN'T real??? :o

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#12    DecoNoir

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 05:05 AM

View PostImaginarynumber1, on 26 August 2013 - 04:17 AM, said:



So... you're saying that gravitation turtles AREN'T real??? :o

Are you a Stephen King fan?

I reject your reality, and substitute my own! Mostly because yours is boring as hell.

#13    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 09:53 AM

View PostNatureBoff, on 26 August 2013 - 04:03 AM, said:

The difference is that I've submitted my idea of an Archimedes screw particle mechanism to explain the gravity force in essay form to a prestigious physics competition held by FQXi. It was well received by other entrants. I had positive personal email correspondence with David Tong, Professor of Theoretical Physics at the University of Cambridge, who was awarded a second prize in the competition as it happens.

Again since when has a well written essay = correct?

I don't care if it was well received by the Pope and the Queen of England, you will still have provided the same amount of evidence to support your hypothesis... NONE.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#14    NatureBoff

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 10:53 AM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 26 August 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Again since when has a well written essay = correct?

I don't care if it was well received by the Pope and the Queen of England, you will still have provided the same amount of evidence to support your hypothesis... NONE.
Physicists interested in the Fundamentals Of Physics had plenty of corroborative work and commented that their own research had similar elements to my own. There was also plenty of posts in addition to the two essays that I'm submitted. Left field thinking is encouraged in this professional forum.

Besides which, I have made a distinct left field prediction for the forthcoming Juno flyby and expected anomaly. What will be your response do you think if an anomalous lateral deviation to the left IS announced after the data is analyzed?

Edited by NatureBoff, 26 August 2013 - 10:57 AM.

The object, known by the locals as "Bicho Voador" (Flying Animal), or "Bicho Sugador" (Sucking Animal), has the shape of a rounded ship and attacks people in isolation.

#15    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 02:10 PM

View PostDecoNoir, on 26 August 2013 - 05:05 AM, said:

Are you a Stephen King fan?

No. I actually don't like King at all.

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