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son blames father for the black dalia slaying


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#1    billyf

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 12:00 AM

im very interested in this case and i would love to see it solved but, i cant help but wonder if this is just another person trying to make money slandering there dead family member... http://www.dailymail...a-murderer.html

so long and thanks for all the fish

#2    billyf

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 12:05 AM

oops....i missed the "h" in dahlia...lol

so long and thanks for all the fish

#3    dr no

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 04:16 PM

Hodel is a total fruit loop he also thinks his father was the Zodiac Killer.As an ex detective I wonder how he ever solved a case


#4    Antilles

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 07:02 AM

Hodel has touted that around for years. Who really, really didn't like Daddy.......

HIs only 'real' proof that Daddy killed Beth Short is a couple of photos he found in one of Daddy's books. Hodel claims they are of Beth Short.

H'm. Maybe when you've had one too many tequila sunrises you might think Porky Pig looks like Beth Short.

Daddy certainly was a player back in the day in LA but Hodel has no irrefutable proof.

It's a theory so he can sell books. Everyone has to make a living I guess, but selling your dead old man out is tacky.


#5    Vincennes

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 02:24 PM

 Antilles, on 25 August 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

Hodel has touted that around for years. Who really, really didn't like Daddy.......

HIs only 'real' proof that Daddy killed Beth Short is a couple of photos he found in one of Daddy's books. Hodel claims they are of Beth Short.

H'm. Maybe when you've had one too many tequila sunrises you might think Porky Pig looks like Beth Short.

Daddy certainly was a player back in the day in LA but Hodel has no irrefutable proof.

It's a theory so he can sell books. Everyone has to make a living I guess, but selling your dead old man out is tacky.

Sorry, Antilles, but I disagree.  This particular "daddy" was really a terrible person.  If Hodel is really just using his books to "get even."  I think it's just a shame that he had to wait so long !

I always thought Michelle Phillips knowledge of what this monster was capable and her observations were interesting.


#6    mattg

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 08:01 PM

I've spoken at length with Hodel about this. He's actually very accessible and gave me detailed answers to my questions.

I don't think the woman in the pics is Elizabeth Short. That aside, he has tons of other evidence to support his case. I'd suggest reading the book and then asking your own questions.

He doesn't have proof. He has evidence. Conflating the two things is a mistake. His evidence is rather compelling if you choose to engage it. Obviously it's not a case cracker or the case would be officially closed.

One point of interest, Hodel presented his evidence to Stephen Kay (ex d.a. for LA County). Kay said he would have closed the case based on Hodel's evidence.

Read his book. Then have an opinion.


#7    Antilles

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 10:45 AM

 mattg, on 25 August 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

I've spoken at length with Hodel about this. He's actually very accessible and gave me detailed answers to my questions.

I don't think the woman in the pics is Elizabeth Short. That aside, he has tons of other evidence to support his case. I'd suggest reading the book and then asking your own questions.

He doesn't have proof. He has evidence. Conflating the two things is a mistake. His evidence is rather compelling if you choose to engage it. Obviously it's not a case cracker or the case would be officially closed.

One point of interest, Hodel presented his evidence to Stephen Kay (ex d.a. for LA County). Kay said he would have closed the case based on Hodel's evidence.

Read his book. Then have an opinion.

I have read the book. H'm. Says more about me than it does about Hodel. He doesn't have proof he has evidence?

You should be a copywriter for an advertising agency. No, the woman in the book is not Beth Short.

But please, inform us of the tons of other evidence he does have. Because what I've read doesn't convince me. Other than the fact he really, really hated his father.

I've said Hodel Snr was a player in the sleazy side of Hollywood. That's an agreed fact. Hodel does not provide one, solid, incontrovertible piece of evidence that links his father to the crime.

About Stephen Kay.

http://articles.lati...m-2dahliaside47

It's from The LA Times. Just classic. Where else would you expect to find a piece about the Dahlia?

Footnote at the end for those of you who won't read the whole article.

"He (Kay) also agrees with Hodel that if one or both turn out not to be Short..."

Now that was in 2004. If absolute evidence had turned up by now that the photos were definitely of Beth Short, Hodel would be on every talk show you can think of.

Oprah reveals the murderer of the Black Dahlia. His son will be live and jumping on her couch. :clap:

Hodel needs to earn a living. He's had his 20 years of fame claiming his father killed Beth.

You want to buy his books, go ahead. It's your money. But don't go flogging his theory - and that's all it is - as absolute proof.

The Black Dahlia's murder has not been solved.


#8    mattg

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 05:37 PM

 Antilles, on 26 August 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:


You should be a copywriter for an advertising agency. No, the woman in the book is not Beth Short.

What I said: I don't think the woman in the pics is Elizabeth Short.

 Antilles, on 26 August 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

But please, inform us of the tons of other evidence he does have. Because what I've read doesn't convince me. Other than the fact he really, really hated his father.

Did you read the book? I'm not going to sit here and re-type sentences from the book that Hodel offers as EVIDENCE (not proof). Also, Hodel spent his life trying to engage his father in a meaningful relationship. He didn't hate him at all. It's in the book.

 Antilles, on 26 August 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Hodel does not provide one, solid, incontrovertible piece of evidence that links his father to the crime.
You are aware that there is such a thing as circumstantial evidence, right? Most people are not sent to prison with DNA. Most people in prison are tried and convicted with circumstantial evidence. It's not 'proof'. This is why the courts allow for appeals.

 Antilles, on 26 August 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

About Stephen Kay....
I'm not sure where you were going with that. I said Kay supports Hodel's theory... you linked an article to prove it. Thanks!

 Antilles, on 26 August 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Hodel needs to earn a living. He's had his 20 years of fame claiming his father killed Beth.
How do you know what his financial standing is? He retired from the LAPD on a pension. presumably he has a retirement package. Maybe he has an inheritance as well... no bearing on the case.

 Antilles, on 26 August 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

You want to buy his books, go ahead. It's your money. But don't go flogging his theory - and that's all it is - as absolute proof.

Thank you. I was awaiting your permission with bated breath. And the last part... yeah I said he has evidence, not proof. Let's see, what else did I say? Oh yes, "Obviously it's not a case cracker or the case would be officially closed."
There you go being crafty and using my words against me.

How in the world you can get that I've said the case is closed and Hodel offers incontrovertible proof of his theory from what I've written is so far beyond me I can't think of anything else to say about it.  

 Antilles, on 26 August 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

The Black Dahlia's murder has not been solved.

Thanks for telling me. I'm pretty sure I said that.


#9    Vincennes

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 02:56 PM

I haven't read the book but now I think I'm going to have to do so!  I have watched the TV specials that Hodel has done and they have been fascinating!  Neither of these TV specials gave me the impression from Hodel that he hated his father.  IMO he was just recognizing the type of person that he had come to realize his father was and the characteristics of a psychopath are there.  I think it was in one of those specials they brought a cadaver dog into the basement of the house and the dog did semi-hit on two spots which, considering the length of time since the murder was understandable.

Again, I thought Michelle Phillips' comments regarding his molestation of his daughter were so revealing along with Dr. Hodel's subsequent treatment of Michelle because he figured out she knew.  She felt from that she saw in his eyes that he was quite capable.  Maybe it's silly but that was very revealing to me because it's a second opinion and I don't think Hodel could have coerced Michelle's comments and it's that opinion of what was to Hodel a kid so he didn't have to quite hide his expressions as he would when dealing with an adult.

(It also caught my interest because at the time of the Mama and Pappas, we all thought Michelle was just a poor hippie kid who made it.  Ha !  When the actual fact of their "discovery" might have been, Michelle had clear connections to old time influential Hollywood.....  LOL!)

Edited by Duncansmom, 27 August 2013 - 02:57 PM.


#10    mattg

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 03:27 AM

There is a lot of interesting discussion in the book about the happenings at Sowden House (Hodel's childhood home). Some of these happenings involve Man Ray (who was Hodel Sr's pal) with particular regard to the portrait "Minotaur". If you've never seen it, check it out (compared to Short's body).

Odd comings and goings and the testimony of Hodel's sister was particularly eye opening.


#11    brlesq1

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 06:29 AM

I don't know a great deal about this case. Maybe I'll read up on it. As for making money off the old man, and ruining what little reputation he did have, you can't libel the dead.

Forget what they told you. You want the truth, follow the money.
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#12    Antilles

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 11:12 AM

Michelle Phillips. Really? Was that while she was on the hoochy or after?


#13    Vincennes

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 03:34 PM

 Antilles, on 28 August 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

Michelle Phillips. Really? Was that while she was on the hoochy or after?

Well if you would discount all observations or statements by anyone who has any drugs in their background it would mean that you wouldn't have to listen to about 80% of the population of Hollywood/LA during that time.

There was nothing in her statements that was over dramatic or self aggrandizing.  She said she felt sorry for her friend because of her father and the home she had to live in.  Sounds pretty level headed to me considering the situation.

This man was evil and the worst of "Daddy Dearest"  with enough connections to get himself out of the molestation charges that were later filed against him.

My only purpose in bringing her comments forward was to say in defense of Steve Hodel, that these kids lived a pretty horrific home life with a father that was a monster. Killer of the Dahlia or not, still a monster and I hope Steve makes every dollar he can off of what they went through.

Edited by Duncansmom, 28 August 2013 - 03:47 PM.


#14    billyf

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 04:56 AM

i

 mattg, on 28 August 2013 - 03:27 AM, said:

There is a lot of interesting discussion in the book about the happenings at Sowden House (Hodel's childhood home). Some of these happenings involve Man Ray (who was Hodel Sr's pal) with particular regard to the portrait "Minotaur". If you've never seen it, check it out (compared to Short's body).

Odd comings and goings and the testimony of Hodel's sister was particularly eye opening.
i agree that the minotaur piece and the way the dahlia was posed do look similar but a lot of killers who pose their victims in sexual ways pose them very much like beth short was positioned. im not saying its out of the realm of possibility that hodel did it, i just dont think the evidence is all that compelling.

 brlesq1, on 28 August 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

I don't know a great deal about this case. Maybe I'll read up on it. As for making money off the old man, and ruining what little reputation he did have, you can't libel the dead.
be that as it may, if i was innocent of a crime; i wouldnt want people, even after im dead acuseing me of it. i just hope his intentions are to shed light on the case and not just for monetary gain.

so long and thanks for all the fish

#15    Antilles

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:08 AM

 billyf, on 29 August 2013 - 04:56 AM, said:

i
i agree that the minotaur piece and the way the dahlia was posed do look similar but a lot of killers who pose their victims in sexual ways pose them very much like beth short was positioned. im not saying its out of the realm of possibility that hodel did it, i just dont think the evidence is all that compelling.
be that as it may, if i was innocent of a crime; i wouldnt want people, even after im dead acuseing me of it. i just hope his intentions are to shed light on the case and not just for monetary gain.


Well put. Who would accuse their own father of a crime, write a book about it, go on chat shows to promote it, if not seeking money?

Hodel's claim is not proven no matter how many rock chicks from the 60's flash a smile.





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