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Atlantis = Niflheim


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#106    The Puzzler

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:45 PM

View Postjaylemurph, on 12 September 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

Well, first of all you're positing some manner of hybrid word between two languages with absolutely no genetic linguistic relationship, and for which there is neither any proof nor any reason to believe any proof was ever extant. The only thing connecting them is your own theory, so using this word as proof of any theory is a complete tautology: it exists only to prove your point, but your point only exists because of your made-up word.

Second of all, you're not using the full word. 'Las' is only a morphological root of a word, not a complete word. In fact, it's not even the complete root, at that. It's lass-. The only reason I can see for not using the complete word, or even the complete root, is that it Atlas as it is attested doesn't have two "s"es at the end. Which suggests your derivation, such as it is, comes only from the form and not the actual derivation or historical evidence for the word. That and the fact that I'm not aware of any Latin borrowing, learned or otherwise, that uses only the root of a word and not the entire form -- I would point specifically to Kibler's Introdction to Old French, which discusses both the morphological and syntactical change in Latin words through the course of borrowing (learned and otherwise), and how important those endings were to language development: it has hundreds of counterexamples to your use here.

But even you admit this isn't very firm ground, and there's no reason to think it stands up to sense. Niether does the idea that the Greeks -- not a specifc Greek dialect, mind, just an undefined 'Greek', which is like saying 'Chinese' rather than Mandarin, Hokkien, or Cantonese -- would then borrow a (proto?) Latin/Euskara word, seemingly only to make the derivation of the word murkier, and that only to make your theory the stronger.

And that was two lines from one post.

I don't think either one of us particularly wants to go on in this nit-picking strain, and by and large I'm happy to pass most of your posts by as I have done recently, but I think my comments that your codlingua is not a valid use of linguistics stands, and you can't get too huffy seeing that kind of response in print.

--Jaylemurph
You're right, I don't want to nit-pick with you, especially since I already stated, which you acknowledged, that it was basically untenable in etymological terms.
Out of 3 posts, that's the best you could do...? One I already said was unworkable, you disappoint me and maybe even underestimate me.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#107    granpa

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:58 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 11 September 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

atoll is word that comes to mind. (Indo-Aryan language) http://dictionary.re...etymology/atoll

Or Father - aita - in Basque and numerous other language + las from Latin, weary, tired. I'm mixing two languages but feel this makes a lot of sense and might work in some way, especially once taken into Greek and Hellenised.

Father tired or father enduring, that kind of thing - a tired mountain father (from holding up the sky, that is hard work) - especially since Atlas had a numerous family, he must be some kind of father figure.

he always looks really tired and I hear this used in words to describe him, when he tries to trick Heracles to hold the sky or in older etymologies like 'enduring'.


http://www.bluelette...ngs=H3918&t=KJV

לַיִשׁ

lion


http://www.biblegate...b 4&version=NIV

Then Eliphaz the Temanite replied:

2 “If someone ventures a word with you, will you be impatient?
But who can keep from speaking?
3 Think how you have instructed many,
how you have strengthened feeble hands.
4 Your words have supported those who stumbled;
you have strengthened faltering knees.
5 But now trouble comes to you, and you are discouraged;
it strikes you, and you are dismayed.
6 Should not your piety be your confidence
and your blameless ways your hope?

7 “Consider now: Who, being innocent, has ever perished?
Where were the upright ever destroyed?
8 As I have observed, those who plow evil
and those who sow trouble reap it.
9 At the breath of God they perish;
at the blast of his anger they are no more.
10 The lions may roar and growl,
yet the teeth of the great lions are broken.
11 The lion perishes for lack of prey,
and the cubs of the lioness are scattered.

Edited by granpa, 12 September 2013 - 01:46 PM.

I have cooked you a meal, cut it into little pieces, and set it before you  but I'm not going to chew it for you
And no one is forcing you to eat it. If you dont want it then dont eat it.

I am not a big believer in science by combat.
Arguing doesn't establish who is right. Arguing only establishes who is the better arguer.

#108    granpa

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 01:14 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 11 September 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

atoll is word that comes to mind. (Indo-Aryan language) http://dictionary.re...etymology/atoll

Or Father - aita - in Basque and numerous other language + las from Latin, weary, tired. I'm mixing two languages but feel this makes a lot of sense and might work in some way, especially once taken into Greek and Hellenised.

Father tired or father enduring, that kind of thing - a tired mountain father (from holding up the sky, that is hard work) - especially since Atlas had a numerous family, he must be some kind of father figure.

he always looks really tired and I hear this used in words to describe him, when he tries to trick Heracles to hold the sky or in older etymologies like 'enduring'.


http://www.bluelette...ongs=H328&t=KJV

אַט

gentleness, softness
gently
flowing
softly
enchanter, necromancer (substantive)





12 “A word was secretly brought to me,
my ears caught a whisper of it.
13 Amid disquieting dreams in the night,
when deep sleep falls on people,
14 fear and trembling seized me
and made all my bones shake.
15 A spirit glided past my face,
and the hair on my body stood on end.
16 It stopped,
but I could not tell what it was.
A form stood before my eyes,
and I heard a hushed voice:
17 ‘Can a mortal be more righteous than God?
Can even a strong man be more pure than his Maker?
18 If God places no trust in his servants,
if he charges his angels with error,
19 how much more those who live in houses of clay,
whose foundations are in the dust,
who are crushed more readily than a moth!
20 Between dawn and dusk they are broken to pieces;
unnoticed, they perish forever.
21 Are not the cords of their tent pulled up,
so that they die without wisdom?’

Edited by granpa, 12 September 2013 - 01:46 PM.

I have cooked you a meal, cut it into little pieces, and set it before you  but I'm not going to chew it for you
And no one is forcing you to eat it. If you dont want it then dont eat it.

I am not a big believer in science by combat.
Arguing doesn't establish who is right. Arguing only establishes who is the better arguer.

#109    granpa

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 01:33 PM

and of course when you think of lions the first thing you think of is Heracles

I have cooked you a meal, cut it into little pieces, and set it before you  but I'm not going to chew it for you
And no one is forcing you to eat it. If you dont want it then dont eat it.

I am not a big believer in science by combat.
Arguing doesn't establish who is right. Arguing only establishes who is the better arguer.

#110    The Puzzler

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 01:40 PM

View Postgranpa, on 12 September 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

and of course when you think of lions the first thing you think of is Heracles
I actually thought of Ilion first, then thought of the lion's gate of Hattusas and then Mycenae and I'm not really following your line of thought in any of these posts regarding the topic, but I wish I was...

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#111    granpa

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 01:48 PM

I edited the posts to make them more readable.

are you familiar with the hebrew alphabet?

the book of job spends a lot of time talking about the men before the flood

That's probably why it's such a difficult book to read

Edited by granpa, 12 September 2013 - 01:56 PM.

I have cooked you a meal, cut it into little pieces, and set it before you  but I'm not going to chew it for you
And no one is forcing you to eat it. If you dont want it then dont eat it.

I am not a big believer in science by combat.
Arguing doesn't establish who is right. Arguing only establishes who is the better arguer.

#112    granpa

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 03:14 PM

Posted Image

I have cooked you a meal, cut it into little pieces, and set it before you  but I'm not going to chew it for you
And no one is forcing you to eat it. If you dont want it then dont eat it.

I am not a big believer in science by combat.
Arguing doesn't establish who is right. Arguing only establishes who is the better arguer.

#113    granpa

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 03:30 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 12 September 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

...and I'm not really following your line of thought in any of these posts regarding the topic, but I wish I was...

I can't answer your questions if I don't know what they are

Edited by granpa, 12 September 2013 - 03:31 PM.

I have cooked you a meal, cut it into little pieces, and set it before you  but I'm not going to chew it for you
And no one is forcing you to eat it. If you dont want it then dont eat it.

I am not a big believer in science by combat.
Arguing doesn't establish who is right. Arguing only establishes who is the better arguer.

#114    The Puzzler

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 04:12 PM

View Postgranpa, on 12 September 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

I can't answer your questions if I don't know what they are
That's OK, I think this is a bit beyond me and I have enough on my plate.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#115    jaylemurph

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 09:16 PM

View Postgranpa, on 12 September 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

Puzzler please dont argue with him.
Its a waste of time.

Your specific counter-argument, complete with examples, to rebut my comments are enlightening, gramps. But in Puzzler, you've found a kindred spirit in codlingua. I'd wish you every success in your efforts, but since you're making it all up anyway, you'd only be unsuccessful if you were suffering from deep-set psychological problems, and you both appear to be reasonably sane.

--Jaylemurph

"... amongst the most obstinate of our opinions may be classed those which derive from discussions in which we affect to search for the truth, while in reality we are only fortifying prejudice."     -- James Fenimore Cooper, The Pathfinder

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#116    granpa

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 10:12 PM

atlantis = at - land ???

land (n.) Posted Image Old English land, lond, "ground, soil," also "definite portion of the earth's surface, home region of a person or a people, territory marked by political boundaries," from Proto-Germanic *landom (cf. Old Norse, Old Frisian Dutch, German, Gothic land), from PIE *lendh- "land, heath" (cf. Old Irish land, Middle Welsh llan "an open space," Welsh llan "enclosure, church," Breton lann "heath," source of French lande; Old Church Slavonic ledina "waste land, heath," Czech lada "fallow land").

Etymological evidence and Gothic use indicates the original sense was "a definite portion of the earth's surface owned by an individual or home of a nation." Meaning early extended to "solid surface of the earth," which had been the sense of the root of Modern English earth. Original sense of land in English is now mostly found under country. To take the lay of the land is a nautical expression. In the American English exclamation land's sakes (1846) land is a euphemism for Lord.

Edited by granpa, 12 September 2013 - 10:14 PM.

I have cooked you a meal, cut it into little pieces, and set it before you  but I'm not going to chew it for you
And no one is forcing you to eat it. If you dont want it then dont eat it.

I am not a big believer in science by combat.
Arguing doesn't establish who is right. Arguing only establishes who is the better arguer.

#117    granpa

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 12:08 AM

Ymir = Ahriman (rules for 9000 years) = Dragon

Quote

20 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.


7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Dragon released from abyss = Typhon

Edited by granpa, 13 September 2013 - 12:23 AM.

I have cooked you a meal, cut it into little pieces, and set it before you  but I'm not going to chew it for you
And no one is forcing you to eat it. If you dont want it then dont eat it.

I am not a big believer in science by combat.
Arguing doesn't establish who is right. Arguing only establishes who is the better arguer.

#118    jaylemurph

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 12:33 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 12 September 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

One I already said was unworkable, you disappoint me and maybe even underestimate me.

Oh, never that. I have a tremendous amount of respect for your research skills, your command of several mythological traditions, and your original thinking. All of which make your resort to made-up, situational linguistics all the more disappointing and frustrating. But this is far from the topic, so I'll leave you and gramps to it.

--Jaylemurph

"... amongst the most obstinate of our opinions may be classed those which derive from discussions in which we affect to search for the truth, while in reality we are only fortifying prejudice."     -- James Fenimore Cooper, The Pathfinder

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Deeply venial

#119    The Puzzler

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 08:48 AM

View Postjaylemurph, on 13 September 2013 - 12:33 AM, said:

Oh, never that. I have a tremendous amount of respect for your research skills, your command of several mythological traditions, and your original thinking. All of which make your resort to made-up, situational linguistics all the more disappointing and frustrating. But this is far from the topic, so I'll leave you and gramps to it.

--Jaylemurph

Thanks..... I think.

I'll have to leave gramps to it, as I said:

Quote

That's OK, I think this is a bit beyond me and I have enough on my plate.


In an mmm bop it's gone...

#120    granpa

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 11:07 AM

In Vafþrúðnismál Odin asks the Giant Vafþrúðnir about the origin of Ymir. Vafþrúðnir answers:
From Éliwaves
Eitrdrops splashed
that grew into a giant
who begat all families
from which all [giants] come
that is why we are easily angered


watery abyss = the deep

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Edited by granpa, 13 September 2013 - 11:13 AM.

I have cooked you a meal, cut it into little pieces, and set it before you  but I'm not going to chew it for you
And no one is forcing you to eat it. If you dont want it then dont eat it.

I am not a big believer in science by combat.
Arguing doesn't establish who is right. Arguing only establishes who is the better arguer.




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