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Atlantis = Niflheim


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#76    granpa

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 01:41 AM

http://en.wikipedia...._Serpent_(deity)

The Feathered Serpent was a prominent supernatural entity or deity, found in many Mesoamerican religions. It was called Quetzalcoatl among the Aztecs, Kukulkan among the Yucatec Maya, and Q'uq'umatz and Tohil among the K'iche' Maya. The double symbolism used in its name is considered allegoric to the dual nature of the deity, where being feathered represents its divine nature or ability to fly to reach the skies and being a serpent represents its human nature or ability to creep on the ground among other animals of the Earth, a dualism very common in Mesoamerican deities

From the void that was the rest of the universe, the first god, Ometeotl, created itself. Ometeotl was both male and female, good and evil, light and darkness, fire and water, judgment and forgiveness, the god of duality. Ometeotl gave birth to four children, the four Tezcatlipocas, who each preside over one of the four cardinal directions. Over the West presides the White Tezcatlipoca, Quetzalcoatl, the god of light, mercy and wind. Over the South presides the Blue Tezcatlipoca, Huitzilopochtli, the god of war. Over the East presides the Red Tezcatlipoca, Xipe Totec, the god of gold, farming and Spring time. And over the North presides the Black Tezcatlipoca, known by no other name than Tezcatlipoca, the god of judgment, night, deceit, sorcery and the Earth. [3]
It was these four gods who eventually created all the other gods and the world we know today, but before they could create they had to destroy, for every time they attempted to create something, it would fall into the water beneath them and be eaten by Cipactli, the giant earth crocodile, who swam through the water with mouths at every one of her joints. The four Tezcatlipocas descended the first people who were giants. They created the other gods, the most important of whom were the water gods: Tlaloc, the god of rain and fertility and Chalchiuhtlicue, the goddess of lakes, rivers and oceans, also the goddess of beauty. To give light, they needed a god to become the sun and the Black Tezcatlipoca was chosen, but either because he had lost a leg or because he was god of the night, he only managed to become half a sun. The world continued on in this way for some time, but a sibling rivalry grew between Quetzalcoatl and his brother the mighty sun, who Quetzalcoatl knocked from the sky with a stone club. With no sun, the world was totally black and in his anger, Tezcatlipoca commanded his jaguars to eat all the people. [4]
The gods created a new group of people to inhabit the Earth, this time they were of normal size. Quetzalcoatl became the new sun and as the years passed, the people of the Earth grew less and less civilized and stopped showing proper honor to the gods. As a result, Tezcatlipoca demonstrated his power and authority as god of sorcery and judgment by turning the animalistic people into monkeys. Quetzalcoatl, who had loved the flawed people as they were, became upset and blew all of the monkeys from the face of the Earth with a mighty hurricane. He then stepped down as the sun to create a new people.

Some of Ometeotl’s later children, the Tzitzimitl, or stars, became jealous of their brighter, more important brother Huitzilopochtli. Their leader, Coyolxauhqui, goddess of the moon, lead them in an assault on the sun and every night they come close to victory when they shine throughout the sky, but are beaten back by the mighty Huitzilopochtli who rules the daytime sky. To aid this all-important god in his continuing war, the Aztecs offer him the nourishment of human sacrifices. They also offer human sacrifices to Tezcatlipoca in fear of his judgment, offer their own blood to Quetzalcoatl, who opposes fatal sacrifices, in thanks of his blood sacrifice for them and give offerings to many other gods for many purposes. Should these sacrifices cease, or should mankind fail to please the gods for any other reason, this fifth sun will go black, the world will be shattered by a catastrophic earthquake, and the Tzitzimitl will slay Huitzilopochtli and all of humanity

Edited by granpa, 01 September 2013 - 01:43 AM.

I have cooked you a meal, cut it into little pieces, and set it before you  but I'm not going to chew it for you
And no one is forcing you to eat it. If you dont want it then dont eat it.

I am not a big believer in science by combat.
Arguing doesn't establish who is right. Arguing only establishes who is the better arguer.

#77    granpa

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 01:54 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehushtan

The Nehushtan (or Nehustan, Hebrew: נחושתן or נחש הנחושת), in the Hebrew Bible, was a sacred object in the form of a snake of brass upon a pole. The priestly source of the Torah says that Moses used a 'fiery serpent' to cure the Israelites from snakebites. (Numbers 21:4-9)
King Hezekiah (reigned 715/716 – 687 BCE) instituted a religious iconoclastic reform and destroyed "the brazen serpent that Moses had made; for unto those days the children of Israel did offer to it; and it was called Nehushtan." (2 Kings 18:4)

http://www.bluelette...ngs=H5180&t=KJV

נְחֻשְׁתָּן

Nehushtan = "a thing of brass"
1) name by which the brazen serpent made by Moses in the wilderness was worshipped in the time of king Hezekiah of Judah before he destroyed it

Edited by granpa, 01 September 2013 - 01:58 AM.

I have cooked you a meal, cut it into little pieces, and set it before you  but I'm not going to chew it for you
And no one is forcing you to eat it. If you dont want it then dont eat it.

I am not a big believer in science by combat.
Arguing doesn't establish who is right. Arguing only establishes who is the better arguer.

#78    granpa

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 02:10 AM

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Hvergelmir

In Norse mythology, Hvergelmir (Old Norse "bubbling boiling spring"[1]) is a major spring. Hvergelmir is attested in the Poetic Edda, compiled in the 13th century from earlier traditional sources, and the Prose Edda, written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson. In the Poetic Edda, Hvergelmir is mentioned in a single stanza, which details that it is the location where liquid from the antlers of the stag Eikþyrnir flow, and that the spring, "whence all waters rise", is the source of numerous rivers.[2] The Prose Edda repeats this information and adds that the spring is located in Niflheim, that it is one of the three major springs at the primary roots of the cosmic tree Yggdrasil (the other two are Urðarbrunnr and Mímisbrunnr), and that within the spring are a vast amount of snakes and the dragon Níðhöggr.

Hvergelmir is mentioned several times in the Prose Edda. In Gylfaginning, Just-as-High explains that the spring Hvergelmir is located in the foggy realm of Niflheim: "It was many ages before the earth was created that Niflheim was made, and in its midst lies a spring called Hvergelmir, and from it flows the rivers called Svol, Gunnthra, Fiorm, Fimbulthul, Slidr and Hrid, Sylg and Ylg, Vid, Leiptr; Gioll is next to Hell-gates."[3]
Later in Gylfaginning, Just-as-High describes the central tree Yggdrasil. Just-as-High says that three roots of the tree support it and "extend very, very far" and that the third of these three roots extends over Niflheim. Beneath this root, says Just-as-High, is the spring Hvergelmir, and that the base of the root is gnawed on by the dragon Níðhöggr.[4] Additionally, High says that Hvergelmir contains not only Níðhöggr but also so many snakes that "no tongue can enumerate them

I have cooked you a meal, cut it into little pieces, and set it before you  but I'm not going to chew it for you
And no one is forcing you to eat it. If you dont want it then dont eat it.

I am not a big believer in science by combat.
Arguing doesn't establish who is right. Arguing only establishes who is the better arguer.

#79    granpa

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 02:33 AM

Solomons sea of bronze

http://www.templesec.../bronzesea.html

I have cooked you a meal, cut it into little pieces, and set it before you  but I'm not going to chew it for you
And no one is forcing you to eat it. If you dont want it then dont eat it.

I am not a big believer in science by combat.
Arguing doesn't establish who is right. Arguing only establishes who is the better arguer.

#80    granpa

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 03:08 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 31 August 2013 - 11:03 PM, said:

View Postgranpa, on 31 August 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

the whole artic region was Niflheim.
(especially those parts that were covered with glaciers during the ice age)
So Doggerland would indeed have been a part of Niflheim

Niflhel would have been even further north toward the north pole itself

Dogger Island was what was left of Doggerland after the catastrophic tsunami of 8200 BP.

Cold sea currents from the north and warmer sea currents from the newly formed Channel in the south would have met around Dogger Island, and made it a large island covered in fog.

In the Arctic no warm and cold sea currents meet and thus no fog- "Nifl" - will be formed.

The old name for the North Sea was "Hel". Coincidence?

The arctic ocean would be Nifl-hel
it is called this because it is north of niflheim. (the "hel" of niflheim. North is thought of as down)
not because "nifl" forms there.
"nifl" would form in niflheim

its easy to see how that would also be applied to the north sea

Edited by granpa, 02 September 2013 - 03:14 AM.

I have cooked you a meal, cut it into little pieces, and set it before you  but I'm not going to chew it for you
And no one is forcing you to eat it. If you dont want it then dont eat it.

I am not a big believer in science by combat.
Arguing doesn't establish who is right. Arguing only establishes who is the better arguer.

#81    jaylemurph

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 05:56 AM

It's rather a pity gramps here blocked me before he started in with his lego linguistics.

Well, it's not /his/ really, is it? It's somebody else's that he's picked up and is aping without any actual working knowledge of linguistics. If he could see me, I'd show him how he's wrong and show him how this kind of historical linguistics actually works. Maybe then he could work up to /believable/ nonsense.

--Jaylemurph

"... amongst the most obstinate of our opinions may be classed those which derive from discussions in which we affect to search for the truth, while in reality we are only fortifying prejudice."     -- James Fenimore Cooper, The Pathfinder

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#82    granpa

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 03:19 AM

Last_Glacial_Maximum

Late_Glacial_Maximum

Younger_Dryas

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Edited by granpa, 04 September 2013 - 03:32 AM.

I have cooked you a meal, cut it into little pieces, and set it before you  but I'm not going to chew it for you
And no one is forcing you to eat it. If you dont want it then dont eat it.

I am not a big believer in science by combat.
Arguing doesn't establish who is right. Arguing only establishes who is the better arguer.

#83    badeskov

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 12:58 PM

View Postjaylemurph, on 03 September 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

It's rather a pity gramps here blocked me before he started in with his lego linguistics.

Well, it's not /his/ really, is it? It's somebody else's that he's picked up and is aping without any actual working knowledge of linguistics. If he could see me, I'd show him how he's wrong and show him how this kind of historical linguistics actually works. Maybe then he could work up to /believable/ nonsense.

--Jaylemurph

Maybe you could be bothered with showing some other ignoramus, namely my humble self?

Cheers,
Badeskov

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#84    granpa

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 01:08 PM

You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar

I have cooked you a meal, cut it into little pieces, and set it before you  but I'm not going to chew it for you
And no one is forcing you to eat it. If you dont want it then dont eat it.

I am not a big believer in science by combat.
Arguing doesn't establish who is right. Arguing only establishes who is the better arguer.

#85    jaylemurph

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 06:30 PM

View Postbadeskov, on 04 September 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Maybe you could be bothered with showing some other ignoramus, namely my humble self?

Cheers,
Badeskov

You don't need be to tell you that cherry picking one or two words from different languages without showing multiple instances or the linguistic function that generated such instances means virtually nothing. I also don't need to tell you that suggesting relationship of two letters in a three letter morpheme -- like atl in the Nahuatl language and Greek (I suppose, gramps doesn't bother to clearly label which version of the multiple ancient Greek languages/dialects he's using* -- is again virtually useless.

* Again, I have to stress that this is almost certainly not his own original finding. He's... oh, what's a sufficiently euphemistic term? "citing someone else's original 'research' " with no real understanding of the study or terms he's using. Still, I suppose it's better he's pretending to be a linguist than pretending to be a thoracic surgeon or structural engineer or something.

-- Jaylemurph

"... amongst the most obstinate of our opinions may be classed those which derive from discussions in which we affect to search for the truth, while in reality we are only fortifying prejudice."     -- James Fenimore Cooper, The Pathfinder

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#86    Abramelin

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 09:21 PM

View Postgranpa, on 01 September 2013 - 01:22 AM, said:

The Black Sea is one of four seas named in English after common color terms—the others being the Red Sea, the White Sea and the Yellow Sea

Strabo's Geography (1.2.10) reports that in antiquity, the Black Sea was often just called "the Sea" (ho pontos). For the most part, Graeco-Roman tradition refers to the Black Sea as the "Hospitable sea", Euxeinos Pontos (Εὔξεινος Πόντος). This is a euphemism replacing an earlier "Inhospitable Sea", Pontos Axeinos, first attested in Pindar (c.475 BC). Strabo (7.3.6) thinks that the Black Sea was called "inhospitable" before Greek colonization because it was difficult to navigate, and because its shores were inhabited by savage tribes. The name was changed to "hospitable" after the Milesians had colonized the southern shoreline, the Pontus, making it part of Greek civilization.
It is also possible that the name Axeinos arose by popular etymology from a Scythian word axšaina- "unlit", "dark"; the designation "Black Sea" may thus date from Antiquity.


According to a study by Giosan et al.[11] the level in the Black Sea before the marine reconnection was 30 m below present sea level, rather than the 80 m, or lower, of the catastrophe theories. If the flood occurred at all, the sea level increase and the flooded area during the reconnection were significantly smaller than previously proposed. It also occurred earlier than initially surmised, ca. 7400 BC, rather than the originally proposed 5600 BC. Since the depth of the Bosporus, in its middle furrow, at present varies from 36 to 124 m, with an average depth of 65 m, a calculated stone age shoreline in the Black Sea lying 30 m lower than in the present day would imply that the contact with the Mediterranean may never have been broken during the Holocene, and hence that there could have been no sudden waterfall-style transgression.

http://en.wikipedia....luge_hypothesis


#87    Abramelin

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 09:29 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 31 August 2013 - 11:03 PM, said:

Dogger Island was what was left of Doggerland after the catastrophic tsunami of 8200 BP.

Cold sea currents from the north and warmer sea currents from the newly formed Channel in the south would have met around Dogger Island, and made it a large island covered in fog.

In the Arctic no warm and cold sea currents meet and thus no fog- "Nifl" - will be formed.

The old name for the North Sea was "Hel". Coincidence?




And I should have added that that tsunami lasted for maybe up to 2 days. A submarine sedimental area, half a mile thick, and the size of Iceland started shifting, west of Norway.

Now imagine that one, eh? The December 2004 tsunami lasting for 2 whole days instead of a couple of hours, tsunamis the size of a 6 floor house and wiping clean an area the size of California.



.


#88    granpa

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 10:23 AM

I think a case can be made that Typhon is a type of (but not identical to) Ymir.

http://www.theoi.com...e/Typhoeus.html

Quote

The later poets frequently connect Typhoeus with Egypt, and the gods, it is said, when unable to hold out against him, fled to Egypt, where, from fear, they metamorphosed themselves into animals, with the exception of Zeus and Athena.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukkot

Quote

Sukkot, Succot or Sukkos (Hebrew: סוכות‎ or סֻכּוֹת sukkōt or sukkos, Feast of Booths, Feast of Tabernacles) is a biblical holiday celebrated on the 15th day of the month of Tishrei (varies from late September to late October). It is one of the three biblically mandated festivals Shalosh regalim on which Hebrews were commanded to make a pilgrimage to the Temple in Jerusalem

The Hebrew word sukkōt is the plural of sukkah, "booth or tabernacle", which is a walled structure covered with schach (plant material such as leafy tree overgrowth or palm leaves). The sukkah is intended as a reminiscence of the type of fragile dwellings in which the Israelites dwelt during their 40 years of travel in the desert after the Exodus from slavery in Egypt.

Genesis 33

Jacob, however, went to Sukkoth, where he built a place for himself and made booths for his livestock. That is why the place is called Sukkoth

Edited by granpa, 10 September 2013 - 10:35 AM.

I have cooked you a meal, cut it into little pieces, and set it before you  but I'm not going to chew it for you
And no one is forcing you to eat it. If you dont want it then dont eat it.

I am not a big believer in science by combat.
Arguing doesn't establish who is right. Arguing only establishes who is the better arguer.

#89    granpa

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 10:30 AM

Quote

He also begat and brought up five pairs of twin male children; and dividing the island of Atlantis into ten portions, he gave to the first-born of the eldest pair his mother's dwelling and the surrounding allotment, which was the largest and best, and made him king over the rest;
the others he made princes, and gave them rule over many men, and a large territory.
And he named them all; the eldest, who was the first king, he named Atlas, and after him the whole island and the ocean were called Atlantic.
To his twin brother, who was born after him, and obtained as his lot the extremity of the island towards the pillars of Heracles, facing the country which is now called the region of Gades in that part of the world, he gave the name which in the Hellenic language is Eumelus, in the language of the country which is named after him, Gadeirus.
Of the second pair of twins he called one Ampheres, and the other Evaemon.
To the elder of the third pair of twins he gave the name Mneseus, and Autochthon to the one who followed him.
Of the fourth pair of twins he called the elder Elasippus, and the younger Mestor.
And of the fifth pair he gave to the elder the name of Azaes, and to the younger that of Diaprepes.
All these and their descendants for many generations were the inhabitants and rulers of divers islands in the open sea; and also, as has been already said, they held sway in our direction over the country within the pillars as far as Egypt and Tyrrhenia.

Quote

Matthew 8 (New International Version)
23 Then he got into the boat and his disciples followed him. 24 Suddenly a furious storm came up on the lake, so that the waves swept over the boat. But Jesus was sleeping. 25 The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Lord, save us! We’re going to drown!”
26 He replied, “You of little faith, why are you so afraid?” Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm.
27 The men were amazed and asked, “What kind of man is this? Even the winds and the waves obey him!”

28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29 “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”

30 Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding. 31 The demons begged Jesus, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.”

32 He said to them, “Go!” So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water. 33 Those tending the pigs ran off, went into the town and reported all this, including what had happened to the demon-possessed men. 34 Then the whole town went out to meet Jesus. And when they saw him, they pleaded with him to leave their region

In Matthew's gospel, the manuscript tradition is split between the location being Gadarenes (such as the Codex Vaticanus) and Gergesenes (such as the Codex Washingtonianus).

Quote

15 And Canaan begat Sidon his first born, and Heth,
16 And the Jebusite, and the Amorite, and the Girgasite,
17 And the Hivite, and the Arkite, and the Sinite,
18 And the Arvadite, and the Zemarite, and the Hamathite: and afterward were the families of the Canaanites spread abroad.


I have cooked you a meal, cut it into little pieces, and set it before you  but I'm not going to chew it for you
And no one is forcing you to eat it. If you dont want it then dont eat it.

I am not a big believer in science by combat.
Arguing doesn't establish who is right. Arguing only establishes who is the better arguer.

#90    Whisperer

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 11:01 AM

Just another little possibility about the flood myths...

There was once a thing called 'The Firmanent" or something like that, a device recognised at the time (both Biblical and Shumer related myths from memory) as protecting mankind from the ravages of the Sun.
Stars twinkled brighter, weather was stable as in no extremes and so on.

Some sort of war saw this device shattered, world columns destroyed and devastation resulted.

The only clue I recall as to the nature of the firmament was a reference to the 4 world columns that held it aloft in a stable orbit and that reference was to Ice.

Should such a device have actually existed then broken up, the result would have been massive rains and therefore floods ( might have taken a centry or so for the gravity effect to pull it all down).

Since then the weather has become what we know today....

Sorry, dont recall the references where I read that interesting little bit except that it was online...

I be Ra...The river of life, the ebb and flow of summer tides...
Make not an image of me, nor offer unto me the limitations of form...
For I be Soul....and I will not be limited...




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