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Valkyries were German women in battle


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#1    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 06:52 PM

After Jugurtha,  appears unknown giant group of people. Teutones and Cimbri on north. Blond hair and "grey eyes".300 000 warriors from Jutland penninsula.These people just arrived on scence over horizon to Romans. At Battle at Arausio 105 BC Romans suffer defeat with 80 000 dead.  In battle of Noeria 112 BC also suffered defeat. Five lost battles in a raw. Then Marius took control. In year 102 BC Battle of Aquae Sextiae 40 000 Romans under Gauis killed 90 000 Teutones Ambrones(Celts) Legurians and capture 20 000. Germans/Celts provoke Roman in fort. Plutarch said that they provoke them and ask them do they want that they massage for their wives.

Plutarch said that Ambrones woman kill their own men fleeing, scream and riping shileds with bear hands and catching swords. German women did that to inspire their men. Roman were tired after Ambrones. Roman didnt celebrate. They spent night in fear.
Legurians attack on side of Romans.
Tacitus 100 years later wrote that German woman if men flee take swords and attack everyone, Germans and enemies.
Strabo wrote how Cimbri went in war with woman and priests.
Marius hide 3000 legionaries on side and main army wait Teutons on slope hill. In right moment 3000 Romans appears from rear.
Teutons were defeated.Marius was choosen 5th time for Consul.
Cimbri scared legions where Sulla was and all legions fled then their leader took standard and run in front of them that looks like he order retreat. That blame goes on him. Then Marius arrived once again.
Next year at battle of Vercellae Marius with 50 000 legionars killed 140 000 Cimbris and captured 60 000. Mongol invasion mostly didnt have that number of people.
Plutarch said that weather played key role for people for whom Tacitus wrote: "Grow up in forest so dark because trees touch top of heaven that they never seen light growing up." It was hot for Cimbri even was it on Alps, North Italy.
Plutarch wrote that Cimbri chained themselves around belts in raws that they couldnt flee.
Those who fled face their woman in black clothes slaying their husbands, children, fathers, brothers. And then kill themselves.
Tacitus wrote that Cimbri lived at Baltic coast.
Marius become wealthy. Nobles gave him treasure.
Marius allied with tribune Saturninus who has ties with common folks, radicals which scared Senate.
That alliance produce Social War.

Anyway legend say that when you saw Valkyries you know you are dead.
Could it be that Valkyries were Norse women who slain their fleeing husbands, fathers, brothers...?
According to Tacitus , Teutones and Cimbri were from Baltic coast.


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#2    DieChecker

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 05:09 AM

View PostBig Bad Voodoo, on 24 August 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

Anyway legend say that when you saw Valkyries you know you are dead.
Could it be that Valkyries were Norse women who slain their fleeing husbands, fathers, brothers...?
According to Tacitus , Teutones and Cimbri were from Baltic coast.

Is it possible? Sure...

Is it likely? I don't think so. The Norse myth that is known from the 13th century with Odin, Thor, Asgard, Loki, Surtr, Ymir, Fenrir.... Did not suposedly exist in a coherent form before the 8th century. Which is like 500 years After the Romans fell apart. Possible, but unlikely, IMHO.

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#3    Harry_Dresden

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 06:48 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 25 August 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:



Is it possible? Sure...

Is it likely? I don't think so. The Norse myth that is known from the 13th century with Odin, Thor, Asgard, Loki, Surtr, Ymir, Fenrir.... Did not suposedly exist in a coherent form before the 8th century. Which is like 500 years After the Romans fell apart. Possible, but unlikely, IMHO.

I also think it might have been probable.. Germanic women acting in a 'berserker' fashion in order to keep their men folk from fleeing the battle field, might just have inspired such a myth.. I wonder if they took some type or narcotic in order to find the resolve to slay their men.. or was it the thought of being Roman slaves that gave them the courage to make such a choice.. either/or this type of extremism must have breed one hellava warrior culture and if it wasn't for the brilliance and the re-organisation of the Marian Roman war-machine, Rome would never have survived such a cold and barbaric people..


#4    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:29 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 25 August 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

Is it possible? Sure...

Is it likely? I don't think so. The Norse myth that is known from the 13th century with Odin, Thor, Asgard, Loki, Surtr, Ymir, Fenrir.... Did not suposedly exist in a coherent form before the 8th century. Which is like 500 years After the Romans fell apart. Possible, but unlikely, IMHO.

Enough time for Tolkien view:
History become legend. Legend become myth.

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#5    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:31 PM

View PostHarry_Dresden, on 25 August 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

...and if it wasn't for the brilliance and the re-organisation of the Marian Roman war-machine, Rome would never have survived such a cold and barbaric people..

Yup, Marius is key word. :tu: Because of him it was sefest to live under eagle.

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Edited by Big Bad Voodoo, 25 August 2013 - 10:36 PM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
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#6    Bavarian Raven

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:35 PM

Quote

Rome would never have survived such a cold and barbaric people..

If only we could have been so lucky! :o


#7    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:37 PM

View PostBavarian Raven, on 25 August 2013 - 10:35 PM, said:

If only we could have been so lucky! :o

Grrr...Im fan of Roman empire. :devil: And republic.

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Edited by Big Bad Voodoo, 25 August 2013 - 10:38 PM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
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#8    EtherialNight

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:37 PM

The Celtic women also fought alongside the men. Boudicca being one famous woman warrior.


#9    Bloodflower

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 12:39 AM

Trying hard to rationalise a myth will give you headaches.

The valkyries as "warrior maidens" is a much later view. The earliest belief as written in the Eddas of the valkyries were quite different. They were female entities who appeared at the point of death. Some took on the form of ravens, (similar to Morrigan) and swans. Also they were considered "disir". They could be identified with the harpies of ancient Greek myths. Also in another way of looking at them they were perhaps early priestesses, who worshipped the ancient gods, especially Odin.

These myths are not confined to the Norse people. They appear throughout the Germanic tribes, and filtered through the ages. There is also a onnection with other Indo European myths.

Edited by Rogue Suga, 26 August 2013 - 12:40 AM.

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#10    elviaduxc

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 07:03 AM

The Celtic women also fought alongside the men.Posted Image


#11    Bloodflower

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 04:03 PM

Oh and they say that you can get a vision of the Valkyries by looking at the northern lights/ aurora borealis.

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#12    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:42 PM

Celtic women also fight with their men, true but they didnt cut heads off of their husbands, fathers, lovers, sons,borthers if they decide to leave battle.

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Edited by Big Bad Voodoo, 27 August 2013 - 09:42 PM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."




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