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Holy Ghost through Jesus


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#1    SpiritWriter

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 02:57 AM

If you receive The Holy Ghost upon hearing The Gospel of Christ, does that mean your Christian? I think it does. What are your opinions?

*** I am not saying you must receive the holy ghost to be Christian, nor what the holy ghost is. Please consider the question as its posed.

What do you think?

Edited by SpiritWriter, 27 August 2013 - 02:58 AM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#2    J. K.

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 02:38 PM

Opinion:  if your question is taken literally, there is a slight flaw in the phrasing.  To become a Christian involves an act of the will; it would not happen just by hearing the Gospel.  Conversely, you can't receive the Holy Spirit unless you do become a Christian.  Does that answer what you intended?

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#3    Heru

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:18 PM

Most churches will preach you must accept Jesus into your heart to be a christian. Receiving the Holy Spirit is kinda what they say when something strange or unexplainable happens to you.
Like say If a bunch of people after a service cant stop laughing and laugh the whole day they say its cause of the Holy Spirit (Im not making this up it happened twice as a child, not to me but usually a group of girls). Another is a common one called Talking in Tongues.

Pretty much any supernatural act (that doesnt involve talking to the dead... big no no for christians) is due to the holy spirit coming upon you or you receiving the Holy Spirit.

Now in Christianity the only way to get to god or heaven is Through Jesus Christ.  In earlier christianity the "Holy Ghost" we will just refer to it as such, was a very big player but when the Romans got ahold of it they squashed most Female aspects of the divine out (yes thats right the holy spirit is female). In Modern Christianity the Holy Ghost is more of a encompassing power that does Gods work or how god's will expresses itself in the finite world.


#4    Bluefinger

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 02:15 PM

I'd disagree Heru.  Reading the Bible as a whole, the Holy Spirit was the Spirit of God's presence.  It entered the tabernacle when the Israelites wandered the Sinai wilderness so that God would be in their midst.  He entered Solomon's temple so that God would be in the midst of the nation of Israel.  He departed Solomon's temple during the days of Ezekiel, shortly before the temple was destroyed.  The Holy Spirit did not return to the people of Israel until Jesus got baptized in the Jordan River; when the Holy Spirit descended upon Him like a dove.  That is what Jesus meant when He said, "The kingdom of God is within in you."  Other translations say, "The kingdom of God is in your midst."  Thus, God was in the midst of His people once again.  When they crucified Jesus, He gave up the Spirit.  Three days Later, He resurrected and returned to heaven 40 days after that.  Then, on the day of Pentecost, Jesus poured out His Spirit on His disciples.  They would then spread the Gospel and baptized more in the Holy Spirit.  Since Christianity wasn't restrictive to solely circumcised Jews, the Gentiles (everybody else) were included and became the temple of God as well.

So the point of the Holy Ghost was not to just to empower the saints to do great miracles.  It was so that God would dwell among us.

"Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit." (Ephesians 2:11-22 ESV)

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#5    Paranoid Android

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 11:53 PM

The Holy Spirit is received by every Christian on his or her conversion to Christ. John the Baptist was said to baptise with water but that one would come after him who baptised with spirit. The Holy Spirit is a down payment, a guarantee of sorts, of a Christian's salvation and place in God's kingdom.

As such I would argue that you cannot be Christian without having been born again, and as the first physical birth is done in the waters of the womb, the rebirth as part of God's family is done with the waters of the Holy Spirit (the practice of baptism is symbolic of this rebirth).

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#6    SpiritWriter

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 05:16 PM

Nice answers guys

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#7    SpiritWriter

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 06:53 PM

But I will say this there are many practicing Christians who do not particularly have evidence of the holy ghost. They've accepted christ and are walking in the spirit but did not receive some sort of hard core 'supernatural' occurance or re-birth. But just in their obedience I think the rebirth is working itself out by a transistion or conditioning of the mind. These people are blessed as well because the bible says It is better to believe without evidence. But surely they do see the evidence of god as they walk it out and the holy ghost has still done and Is doing its work. I mention this because I know quite a few people who have said "I havent received the holy ghost yet" but they've been walking in the faith for years.

Edit: I would not dare to call these people not Christian, they're probably more Christian than I am.

Edited by SpiritWriter, 30 August 2013 - 06:58 PM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#8    Beany

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 02:41 AM

Do you have to receive the Holy Spirit to experience it? Are you saying it's like a person but invisible, limited in locality & interaction to only Christians? That's like saying god doesn't care about the rest of us. Wouldn't a holy spirit that evident in everyone's lives be more powerful, and wouldn't you think that non-Christians would benefit the most from an experience of it? I'm somewhat familiar with the dogma around it, I'm not particularly interested in that, but in what free thinkers have to say about it. What if the holy spirit is energy that's around us all the time, helping those who need it, whether they're Christian or not? I just can't get behind any manifestation of a god who ignores the majority of people because of their religion, and I don't think god would do that anyway; humans might, but not an all-loving god who isn't subject to the limitations of human thinking & behavior & foibles.

Whatever our opinions are of god, what she might be like, I'm pretty sure she's inclusive instead of exclusive.

Edited by Beany, 31 August 2013 - 02:43 AM.


#9    SpiritWriter

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 03:54 AM

View PostBeany, on 31 August 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

Do you have to receive the Holy Spirit to experience it? Are you saying it's like a person but invisible, limited in locality & interaction to only Christians? That's like saying god doesn't care about the rest of us. Wouldn't a holy spirit that evident in everyone's lives be more powerful, and wouldn't you think that non-Christians would benefit the most from an experience of it? I'm somewhat familiar with the dogma around it, I'm not particularly interested in that, but in what free thinkers have to say about it. What if the holy spirit is energy that's around us all the time, helping those who need it, whether they're Christian or not? I just can't get behind any manifestation of a god who ignores the majority of people because of their religion, and I don't think god would do that anyway; humans might, but not an all-loving god who isn't subject to the limitations of human thinking & behavior & foibles.

Whatever our opinions are of god, what she might be like, I'm pretty sure she's inclusive instead of exclusive.


My dear Beany, I never implied the Holy Spirit is partial to only Christians. I would love to hear about what non-christians have experienced through this divine interaction as a matter of fact. My question was about receiving the Holy Spirit through the The Gospel of Christ, which indeed is a very real phenomenon. And my question was if it happened this way, would that mean you are Christian? I think so, if you received the Holy Spirit after accepting Jesus as your lord and savior, that would be a direct affect of becoming Christian. So I think this is genuine act and you could truly call yourself Christian in this sense.... this was my point. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to hear about anyone who had experience with the holy ghost, no matter what religion they claim.

BUT

I would hope that any experience with the Holy Spirit would put understanding toward what Christ was teaching. This should not make anyone feel that God is partial at all. The bible does teach that God is impartial... and that's what I personally believe, I don't know about you.

edit: I am not saying what the holy spirit is, it could be an invisible person perhaps, but people experience it in many different ways, so I wasn't really trying to get into that. I've seen Christians argue about it. The only thing I can say is that it is identifiable when it happens. You will know it is the spirit of God and it will be something amazing. It is more than a miracle, it is a life changing event on top of being amazing.

Edited by SpiritWriter, 31 August 2013 - 04:05 AM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#10    Beany

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 04:36 PM

Glad to hear your inclusive instead of exclusive, I was thinking last night while drifting off to sleep how to so many people their faith, whatever it is, is very much about exclusivity and performance, and how that divides us instead of uniting us. I have had a life-changing event, and while I'm not Christian in the formal sense of the word, can fit it into the idea of meeting the holy spirit. But I still don't call myself Christian. I've met people who think I shouldn't have had the experience because I didn't qualify as a Christian before or after, or who think I Satan, because the holy spirit would never have come to someone like me.

As  type this, it strikes me that the sacred/diving/holy spirit doesn't care what we call ourselves, what labels we put on ourselves or others put on us. Those labels/names usually tell us little about a person's nature, or what's in their heart, what brings them joy, the depth or breadth of their compassion and generosity, their capacity to love, their kindness, and these are the things I think would interest the holy spirit/sacred most. And are qualities that are not limited to members of any religion. I think you're right, god is impartial, and is all-loving, unlike some humans who claim to live a life in his/her name. Well, to err is human, as we say. And I guess, being a holy spirit, it could manifest itself in whatever way it chose, which in itself is a miracle and a mystery.

Thanks for your response, it was kind and honest.


#11    SpiritWriter

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 04:42 PM

View PostBeany, on 31 August 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

Glad to hear your inclusive instead of exclusive, I was thinking last night while drifting off to sleep how to so many people their faith, whatever it is, is very much about exclusivity and performance, and how that divides us instead of uniting us. I have had a life-changing event, and while I'm not Christian in the formal sense of the word, can fit it into the idea of meeting the holy spirit. But I still don't call myself Christian. I've met people who think I shouldn't have had the experience because I didn't qualify as a Christian before or after, or who think I Satan, because the holy spirit would never have come to someone like me.

As  type this, it strikes me that the sacred/diving/holy spirit doesn't care what we call ourselves, what labels we put on ourselves or others put on us. Those labels/names usually tell us little about a person's nature, or what's in their heart, what brings them joy, the depth or breadth of their compassion and generosity, their capacity to love, their kindness, and these are the things I think would interest the holy spirit/sacred most. And are qualities that are not limited to members of any religion. I think you're right, god is impartial, and is all-loving, unlike some humans who claim to live a life in his/her name. Well, to err is human, as we say. And I guess, being a holy spirit, it could manifest itself in whatever way it chose, which in itself is a miracle and a mystery.

Thanks for your response, it was kind and honest.

I agree with you...

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#12    SpiritWriter

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 04:44 PM

Oh and thanks for sharing! I appreciate that!

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#13    Beany

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:30 PM

It's been my experience that if Christians & non-Christians can continue a dialogue without getting ticked off at one another, that they can often find a lot of commonalities. Not all differences will be resolved, nor is that a reasonable goal, but to find common ground, to recognize similar experiences are often not identified because of the language/words chosen to describe it, that's an interesting & worthwhile thing.

It's my belief that we are all loved unconditionally from the time we are born on to this planet. That we need do nothing or say anything, believe in a particular way, to earn this love. The tragedy is that we are so often convinced otherwise by sometimes well-meaning people, and sometimes just by ignorant, cruel, people; that who we are isn't quite good enough, not lovable enough, that the sacred has judged us and found us wanting. To convince a person of that is the ultimate cruelty. For each human being to find their way back to that perfect love is a triumphal act of courage, and a return home.


#14    Paranoid Android

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 01:32 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 30 August 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

But I will say this there are many practicing Christians who do not particularly have evidence of the holy ghost.
Why is such evidence even necessary? I don't recall scripture that demands it. I've never experienced "supernatural" claims yet fully believe and accept the Holy Spirit that works in my life.

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#15    SpiritWriter

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 03:42 PM

View PostParanoid Android, on 01 September 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

Why is such evidence even necessary? I don't recall scripture that demands it. I've never experienced "supernatural" claims yet fully believe and accept the Holy Spirit that works in my life.

That's what I'm saying, it's not necessary.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung




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