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New Wikileaks: Israeli Ties to 9/11 Attack


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#31    skyeagle409

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 11:12 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 29 August 2013 - 10:36 PM, said:

so you and eddy lied and that somehow discredits others? :rofl: I recall the hoax fell apart within 24 hours, so nobody was fooled, although I remember posting that video here asking what others thought about it. whilst i shortly recognised it as a fake,hilarious.

It was hilarious considering that some 911 fruthers actually went online and proclaimed the hoaxed WTC7 video as authentic!!

And let's remember, 911 truthers claimed that United 93 landed at Cleveland airport and I was one of a number of people who posted the facts related to that false story as well. The 911 truthers confused Delta 1989, which was a B767, with United 93, which was a B-757. Check it out.

Quote

Rumor One: Cleveland Mayor Mike White told reporters that United 93 haD landed safely at Hopkins on 9/11.

Evidence For: At 11:43 a.m. the morning of 9/11, the following Associated Press news bulletin appeared on the Web site for Cincinnati ABC affiliate station WCPO, Channel 9: "A Boeing 767 out of Boston made an emergency landing Tuesday at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport due to concerns that it may have a bomb aboard, said Mayor Michael R. White. White said the plane had been moved to a secure area of the airport, and was evacuated. United identified the plane as Flight 93."...

Evidence Against: Former Mayor White hardly ever talks to the media now, so Free Times contacted his former press secretary Della Homenik.

"It has always been my understanding that United flight 93 diverted from its intended flight plan while it was in Cleveland air space," Homenik writes in an e-mail. "I never heard a single report, from any source, either on September 11 or in its aftermath, that flight 93 landed in Cleveland."

A review of WEWS Cleveland Channel 5's live coverage of White's comments that day show that he never suggested that the grounded plane parked at the end of a Hopkins runway was United 93.

"Let me walk through the most current situation that we are grappling with," says White at the brief press conference. "At this moment, we have a Boeing 767 in a secure area of Hopkins International Airport. The initial reports were that this plane was hijacked and that there was a bomb on board. There was, before this, an additional plane in our airspace. I am told through unconfirmed reports that we could hear screaming in the control tower. This plane has been diverted from Cleveland and at last report was in the Toledo airspace."

Later, we would learn that this 767 was Delta flight 1989. It had originated from the same Boston airport as United 93, but was cleared by inspectors after landing at Hopkins. It had not been hijacked, and there was no bomb. And United 93, by the way, was a 757...


RUMOR TWO: UNITED 93

United 93 deboarded at NASA Glenn Research Center and its passengers were taken away in an unmarked shuttle.

Evidence For: Newspaper articles published after 9/11 suggest there were two planes, not one, that were forced to land in Cleveland. One was Delta 1989. The other is often referred to as "Flight X" but is assumed by many to be United 93.

The Web site 911review.org cites real articles from the Plain Dealer, Akron Beacon Journal and USA Today to establish these facts:

> A plane landed in Cleveland at 10:10 a.m.

> Delta 1989 landed here at 10:45 a.m., and its 69 passengers and nine crew members were loaded onto buses and taken to Federal Aviation Administration headquarters at Hopkins.

> At 11:15 a.m., 200 passengers from the other plane were taken to NASA Glenn, whose employees had already evacuated, to be interviewed by FBI agents. (While United 93 is known to have carried 37 passengers and seven crew members, conspiracy theorists are quick to point out that if the passengers and crew of all four flights that crashed on 9/11 had been consolidated at some secret location, the number would be right about 200.)

Bloggers claims that eyewitnesses saw civilians being loaded onto military bus ses at NASA Glenn. They were whisked away to some undisclosed location, never to be seen again.

The FAA refused Free Times' repeated requests for interviews. The media department at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport stopped returning our calls when we asked to speak with the safety director who worked at the airport on 9/11.

During a recent layover in Cleveland, Loose Change producer Jason Bermas questioned an airport employee about the events of 9/11. "She said, "Well, that one Delta flight was grounded here and another was grounded at NASA Glenn,'" Bermas recalls. "We told her we had heard the plane at NASA was United 93. But then she just went into the official version of events and said it was definitely not United 93. But there was another plane at NASA Glenn that day and no one has ever explained that. I'm hoping a news agency will go over and follow up on that."

Evidence Against: We did. And Bermas is right, there was another plane grounded at NASA Glenn on 9/11. But it wasn't United 93.

Vernon "Bill" Wessel is the director of safety and mission assurance at NASA Glenn. He was in his office the morning of 9/11 when an employee called him from home. "He says, "Bill, I don't know if this is a hoax or what, but I just saw a plane crash into the World Trade Center.'" Wessel says he hung up and raced downstairs to a conference room. Center Director Don Campbell joined him. A projector beamed the television's image onto a large screen just as United Airlines flight 175 crashed into the South Tower of the World Trade Center.

An emergency meeting of directors was called, and an order to evacuate NASA was issued. When Wessel learned that Delta 1989 was stuck on the tarmac at Hopkins and that it might contain explosives, he decided it would be unwise to use the front gate, closest to the airport, to evacuate the 3,500 NASA Glenn employees under his watch. E-mails and phone calls were sent out to different departments at the research facility, informing everyone to leave via the back gate. "It took about an hour and a half to evacuate everybody," Wessel recalls.

So what about the so-called Flight X?

"A KC-135 had to come back to the hangar," says Wessel, as if realizing for the first time that this aircraft may have caused some undue confusion. A team of scientists from the Johnson Space Center in Houston had flown to Cleveland on this KC-135 to conduct micro-gravity experiments. (Also known as "the vomit comet," KC-135's are used to simulate weightlessness. The plane soars to high altitudes, then falls back toward the ground, giving passengers a few seconds of zero-G experience. Scenes for the Tom Hanks movie Apollo 13 were filmed in one.)

The visiting scientists could not return to Houston as scheduled on 9/11 once the FAA ordered all planes to land. "After the facility closed, we had to take those scientists to a hotel." The scientists, dressed as civilians, were boarded onto shuttle buses.

My link


911 Truthers took a serious hit on that one because again, they didn't bother to do their homework.

Quote

it was interesting and amusing to see the prominent debunkers here argue vehemently that the explosion sounds were not explosives which proved they were not interested in any evidence, just denial,

Well, let's take a look because I did not see bomb explosions in the WTC videos and no one saw nor heard bomb explosions.

Quote

Explosions

"When we got to about 50 ft from the South Tower, we heard the most eerie sound that you would ever hear. A high-pitched noise and a popping noise made everyone stop. We all looked up. At the point, it all let go.The way I see it, it had to be the rivets. The building let go, there was an explosion and the whole top leaned toward us and started coming down."

He also says he thinks the rivets caused the building to fall and not bombs. Interestingly, the NIST said most of the failures were at the bolts and connections.

http://www.debunking.../explosions.htm



No bombs there!

Quote

Louie Cacchioli, 51, is a firefighter assigned to Engine 47 in Harlem

Originally, on September 12, 2001, People Magazine ran a few short paragraphs about the 20-year veteran New York fireman hearing what sounded like bombs exploding in the north tower.

Short and sweet, that was it. A few short words about bombs exploding, but words that were repeated over and over again in story after story by writers and broadcasters who never even bothered to talk to him in the first place.

Furthermore, Cacchioli was upset that People Magazine misquoted him, saying "there were bombs" in the building when all he said was he heard "what sounded like bombs" without having definitive proof bombs were actually detonated.



No bombs there either!

Quote


The Elevator Man's Tale

We heard the explosion and within a matter of seconds after that impact, I heard – and as well as everybody else heard – this noise, this increasing sound of wind. And it was getting louder and louder. It was like a bomb, not quite the sound of a bomb coming down from a bomber. It was a sound of wind increasing, a whistling sound, increasing in sound.

What we heard was 6 and 7 car free-falling from the 107th floor and they impacted the basement at B-2 Level. And that’s the explosion that filled the lobby within a matter of two or three seconds, engulfed the lobby in dust, smoke.

http://www.thrnewmed...ember/jones.htm


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excerpts from: "8 Hurt as Trade Center Elevator Rams Ceiling" by Dan Kadison, Adam Miller, Erika Martinez and Cathy Burke,New York Post,August 12, 2000, p.4.

The express elevator to the Sky Lobby at the World Trade Center roared 24 feet past its stop and slammed into a ceiling 960 feet above ground yesterday, injuring eight of 12 people trapped inside.
The trapped passengers - who were stuck in Elevator No. 20 about 15 feet above the 78th floor at Two World Trade Center - had to be escorted to safety in a heart-stopping operation conducted from the roof of a second, adjacent elevator.

"We didn't know if we would get out alive," Queens resident Richard Gallo, an electrical engineer at the building, told his wife, Helen. "Everyone was screaming. There was blood all over the place. We were really scared that the elevator was going to plunge to the ground...." "I've been riding the elevator for years" [added a co-worker]. "Occasionally they slip, it's not something you can focus on." Others [present] described the crash as sounding like a horrendous "boom."  People "thought it was a bomb," said Kim Dunlap, a receptionist on the 100th floor. It rocked the building.

There's never a dull moment at the World Trade Center."


Jay Swithers

An ambulance pulled up which was very clean, S0 I assumed that the vehicle had not been in the what I thought was an explosion at the time, but was the first collapse.




Still no bombs.

Quote

Dominick Derubbio

t was weird how it started to come down. It looked like it was a timed explosion, but I guess it was just the floors starting to pancake one on top of the other.
So this guys is guessing that the explosions were floors pancaking.


FDNY Batallion Chief Brian Dixon

I looked up and you could actually see everything blew out on the one floor. I thought, geez, this looks like an explosion up there, it blew out. Then I guess in some sense of time we looked at it and realized, no, actually it just collapsed. That ís what blew out the windows, not that there was an explosion there but that windows blew out.

So something blew out a floor, but again he said it looked like an explosion, but it wasn't an explosion and then doesn't explain what blew out the windows/floor.

Of course, this man could not be mistaken could he?? lol  In an internet debunking warrior, his word trumps that of any other eyewitnesses  regardless of the time they heard the explosions or whether they were in a different locations.



Craig Carlsen said that he and other firefighters “heard explosions coming from . . . the south tower

...there were about ten explosions. At the time I didn't realize what it was. We realized later after talking and finding out that it was the floors collapsing to where the plane had hit.

http://www.911myths....uote_abuse.html



Where's the bomb evidence 911 Truthers speak off?

As you can see, the explosions they heard were attributed to other things that had nothing to do with explosives. Just because someone heard what they thought was a bomb explosion is not evidence that a bomb was responsible as the following examples clearly point out.

Quote


About 1:30 a.m., Jolanta Haney , 57, awoke to a loud crash when a pecan tree crashed through her bedroom ceiling.

"It sounded like a bomb," the Uptown resident said. "The whole house was shaking. I was thinking, 'God save us.' "

http://www.ohsep.lou...ithoutpower.htm [broken]
-------------------------------------------------------------

Several callers to The Straits Times said they heard an explosion, while others reported blackouts. Though some eyewitnesses said they saw flames flash across Nicoll Highway, the LTA said it had no evidence of an explosion.

When leaking gas was detected, Power Gas shut off the supply to the severed pipe, said Mr Rajan Krishnan, LTA’s director of projects, at a news conference last night. The loud sound of the collapsing wall ‘might have sounded like an explosion’, he said.

The huge boom which sounded at 3.30pm sent many office workers scurrying to their windows, to be stunned by what they saw.

...Mr Vincent Chan, 28, said he heard a loud sound ‘like a huge aircraft approaching the building’.

Ms Sirirat... heard a loud bang. ‘I saw many women running out of their shops,’ she said. ‘They said: ‘Gas explosion! Run for your life’. So I followed them. I thought it was a bomb.’

http://www.electricr...4_0417-0423.php
------------------------------------------------------------------------

"We were having a dinner party one night and we heard what sounded like explosions in front of the house. It turned out to be nothing more than eggs hurled at our front windows, but it sounded terrifying and we all jumped under the table.

http://www.newyorker.../?020513fa_FACT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Suddenly, Oaks looked around to see her living room on fire and the apartment filling up with smoke. She went to her bedroom, smashed through the glass of the window with her right hand, now wrapped in bandages. She perched on the window frame.

As she jumped, she heard the smoke alarm blare...

Oaks heard what sounded like explosions, and windows blew out apartments several doors away.

http://cms.firehouse...nId=46&id=45132
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
A raging fire swept through the upper levels of an empty, 32-story office building in downtown Madrid early Sunday, causing no serious injuries but collapsing the top floors in a shower of flaming debris...

The fire started around 11:30 p.m. Saturday and was still burning out of control several hours later. At least nine upper stories were on fire and muffled explosions could be heard in the building.

The cause of the blaze was not immediately known, but emergency services spokesman Javier Ayuso said it might have been a short circuit, informs the Guardian...

http://newsfromrussi...2/13/58231.html

In addition, no one recovered explosive hardware from ground zero. In regard to "no evidence of explosives on the steel, if there were, then there would have been evidence of detonation cords and blasting caps, but none were found at ground zero.

Posted Image

Columns are fully loaded with explosives and hooked

Posted Image

Blasting caps are used as a catalyst to set off the explosives loaded in support columns.

Now, let's do a comparison between real explosive demolitions and the collapse of the WTC buildings.



Quote

The Elevator Man's Tale

We heard the explosion and within a matter of seconds after that impact, I heard – and as well as everybody else heard – this noise, this increasing sound of wind. And it was getting louder and louder. It was like a bomb, not quite the sound of a bomb coming down from a bomber. It was a sound of wind increasing, a whistling sound, increasing in sound.

What we heard was 6 and 7 car free-falling from the 107th floor and they impacted the basement at B-2 Level. And that’s the explosion that filled the lobby within a matter of two or three seconds, engulfed the lobby in dust, smoke.

http://www.thrnewmed...ember/jones.htm

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excerpts from: "8 Hurt as Trade Center Elevator Rams Ceiling" by Dan Kadison, Adam Miller, Erika Martinez and Cathy Burke,New York Post,August 12, 2000, p.4.

The express elevator to the Sky Lobby at the World Trade Center roared 24 feet past its stop and slammed into a ceiling 960 feet above ground yesterday, injuring eight of 12 people trapped inside.
The trapped passengers - who were stuck in Elevator No. 20 about 15 feet above the 78th floor at Two World Trade Center - had to be escorted to safety in a heart-stopping operation conducted from the roof of a second, adjacent elevator.

"We didn't know if we would get out alive," Queens resident Richard Gallo, an electrical engineer at the building, told his wife, Helen. "Everyone was screaming. There was blood all over the place. We were really scared that the elevator was going to plunge to the ground...." "I've been riding the elevator for years" [added a co-worker]. "Occasionally they slip, it's not something you can focus on." Others [present] described the crash as sounding like a horrendous "boom."  People "thought it was a bomb," said Kim Dunlap, a receptionist on the 100th floor. It rocked the building.

There's never a dull moment at the World Trade Center."

As I have said, no one heard nor saw bomb explosions at ground zero. It has been 12 years and counting and yet, not one single piece of evidence has surfaced that implicates the Israeli Mossad nor the U.S. government in the 911 attack.

The above debunked 911 Truther claims lays it out on the table as to why 911 Truthers allow themselves to be duped by false and misleading information and outright lies on a regular basis and in some cases, there were duped by PLANTED disinformation and misinformation for the sole purpose of discrediting the 911 Truther movement.

Edited by skyeagle409, 29 August 2013 - 11:48 PM.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#32    hacktorp

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 12:52 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 29 August 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

Facts, all facts! :yes:

Yessiree...and what's more, all THESE facts are gov'mint certified, genetically modified, and specifically fit for US patriot consumption (washed down with a 32 oz Big Gulp, of course)!

Edited by hacktorp, 30 August 2013 - 12:53 AM.


#33    DecoNoir

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 01:09 AM

View Posthacktorp, on 30 August 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:



Yessiree...and what's more, all THESE facts are gov'mint certified, genetically modified, and specifically fit for US patriot consumption (washed down with a 32 oz Big Gulp, of course)!

Wow, putting down nonCTs for so called "denial" all while your desperately grabbing at straws. Hypocritical, no?

I reject your reality, and substitute my own! Mostly because yours is boring as hell.

#34    skyeagle409

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 01:20 AM

View Posthacktorp, on 30 August 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

Yessiree...and what's more, all THESE facts are gov'mint certified, genetically modified, and specifically fit for US patriot consumption (washed down with a 32 oz Big Gulp, of course)!

False again! Let's check it out. Is American Airlines a government agency?



Quote



Is United Airlines a government agency?

Quote


Posted Image

Text: United Airlines Statement on Plane Crashes

Following is a statement issued by United Airlines on the crash of Flight 93 near Pittsburgh and Flight 175 in a location that was not immediately disclosed:
United Airlines has now confirmed that two of its aircraft have crashed.

— UA 93, a Boeing 757 aircraft, departed from Newark, N.J. at 8:01 a.m. local time, bound for San Francisco, with 38 passengers on board, two pilots, five flight attendants.


— UA 175, a Boeing 767 aircraft, departed from Boston at 7:58 a.m. local time, bound for Los Angeles, with 56 passengers on board, two pilots and seven flight attendants.

United has confirmed it will dispatch a team to Johnstown, Pa., as soon as possible to assist, in every way possible, with the investigation and to provide assistance to the family members.

“Our thoughts are with the passengers, employees and family members of those involved. Today’s events are a tragedy and our prayers are with everyone at this time,” said James E. Goodwin, United’s CEO.
Goodwin said United is working with all the relevant authorities involved in today’s events and will provide further information as soon as it is available.

http://www.washingto..._text091101.htm


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

United Airlines Fleet History

http://www.planespot...United-Airlines


United 175

http://www.planespot...ed-Airlines.php


United 93

http://www.planespot...ed-Airlines.php


The Society of Civil Engineers and Institute of American Architects are not government agencies and yet, they've confirmed that fire was responsible for the collapse of the WTC buildings.

The NYFD, which is not a federal government agency and yet, it has confirmed that fire was responsible for the collapse of the WTC buildings. Demolition experts who were present on the scene at ground zero are not government employees and yet, they've confirmed that no explosive was involved and they have indicated  they found no evidence of explosives at ground zero.

Quote

Did experts on the scene think WTC 7 was a controlled demolition?


"Several demolition teams had reached Ground Zero by 3:00 pm on 9/11, and these individuals witnessed the collapse of WTC 7 from within a few hundred feet of the event.

We have spoken with several who possess extensive experience in explosive demolition, and all reported seeing or hearing nothing to indicate an explosive detonation precipitating the collapse.

As one eyewitness told us, "We were all standing around helpless...we knew full well it was going to collapse. Everyone there knew. You gotta remember there was a lot of confusion and we didn't know if another plane was coming...but I never heard explosions like demo charges.

We knew with the damage to the building and how hot the fire was, that building was gonna go, so we just waited, and a little later it went."  

https://sites.google...wtc7resembledac


You can take the government out of the loop and you will still left with an overwhelming majority of non-government companies and individuals saying that fire was responsible for the collapse of the WTC buildings and they have provided the evidence that backed what they have said.

Edited by skyeagle409, 30 August 2013 - 01:24 AM.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#35    Likely Guy

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 01:47 AM

View Postleajbsg1, on 30 August 2013 - 01:28 AM, said:

Didn't turn out so well.Posted Image    
Posted Image  
Posted Image  
Posted Image    
Posted Image

Thanks for adding to the debate.

Edited by Likely Guy, 30 August 2013 - 01:49 AM.


#36    hacktorp

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 02:09 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 30 August 2013 - 01:20 AM, said:

You can take the government out of the loop and you will still left with an overwhelming majority of non-government companies and individuals saying that fire was responsible for the collapse of the WTC buildings and they have provided the evidence that backed what they have said.

Wasn't this thread about Wikileaks and foreign state involvement in 911?  Unless you're claiming that any structural failures caused by fire eliminates that possibility...?


#37    hacktorp

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 02:12 AM

View PostDecoNoir, on 30 August 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

Wow, putting down nonCTs for so called "denial" all while your desperately grabbing at straws. Hypocritical, no?

You are correct..."no".

Btw, is "nonCT" the same as "DP" (disinfo propagandist)?


#38    DecoNoir

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 02:17 AM

View Posthacktorp, on 30 August 2013 - 02:12 AM, said:



You are correct..."no".

Btw, is "nonCT" the same as "DP" (disinfo propagandist)?

Sorry, I was under the impression one had to present actual evidence of a conspiracy in order to further the point. Not use the "your facts are filtered by government propaganda" copout whenever they're backed into a corner.

I reject your reality, and substitute my own! Mostly because yours is boring as hell.

#39    hacktorp

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 02:33 AM

View PostDecoNoir, on 30 August 2013 - 02:17 AM, said:

Sorry, I was under the impression one had to present actual evidence of a conspiracy in order to further the point. Not use the "your facts are filtered by government propaganda" copout whenever they're backed into a corner.

No, you're quite right.  A conspiracy theory has been carefully laid out in which it's claimed a tiny band of box cutter-wielding religious zealots were entirely responsible for the monstrous atrocities of that day...not to mention the ensuing windfall that accrued to certain state and corporate interests.

The evidence they've presented for the 'lesser conspiracy' pretty much stinks.


#40    DecoNoir

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 02:58 AM

View Posthacktorp, on 30 August 2013 - 02:33 AM, said:



No, you're quite right.  A conspiracy theory has been carefully laid out in which it's claimed a tiny band of box cutter-wielding religious zealots were entirely responsible for the monstrous atrocities of that day...not to mention the ensuing windfall that accrued to certain state and corporate interests.

The evidence they've presented for the 'lesser conspiracy' pretty much stinks.

Ah, the common "There's no way a few guys with can do terrible things" system of belief, now I understand. You need to believe that horrible things need grand orchestration, rather than face the fact that any series of random unrelated events can end your life. Well excuse me, I have to go live my life rather than spend it looking for monsters in the closet.

I reject your reality, and substitute my own! Mostly because yours is boring as hell.

#41    hacktorp

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 03:09 AM

View PostDecoNoir, on 30 August 2013 - 02:58 AM, said:

Well excuse me, I have to go live my life rather than spend it looking for monsters in the closet.
By all means!  Don't forget your Big Gulp...


#42    RaptorBites

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 03:22 AM

View Posthacktorp, on 30 August 2013 - 03:09 AM, said:


By all means!  Don't forget your Big Gulp...

By all means, why not provide the evidence you feel directly contradicts each one of sky's points.

Seems to me you took the lazy approach by your statements.

No, you surround yourself with a whole different kettle of crazy. - Sir Wearer of Hats

#43    DONTEATUS

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 03:27 AM

Yepster ! THe B.S. is so Deep in here ones might just step off the edge of our Flat World ! :tu:
Cheer`s Skyeagle ! on your Six still! Keep the Sun on your 12:00.

This is a Work in Progress!

#44    hacktorp

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 03:36 AM

View PostRaptorBites, on 30 August 2013 - 03:22 AM, said:



By all means, why not provide the evidence you feel directly contradicts each one of sky's points.

Which of his "points" relate to the actual topic of this thread?  None.

I'm inclined to agree with donteatus...it's all BS and boy is it deep!


#45    RaptorBites

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 03:52 AM

View Posthacktorp, on 30 August 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

Which of his "points" relate to the actual topic of this thread?  None.

I'm inclined to agree with donteatus...it's all BS and boy is it deep!

Yet you decided to write a response to it?  What a hypocrite.

No, you surround yourself with a whole different kettle of crazy. - Sir Wearer of Hats




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