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interesting object found on Google Mars


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#61    Skep B

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 11:54 PM

what a weird question.

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#62    Hazzard

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:42 PM

View Postseeder, on 28 August 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

Also answer me this. If the dinos had never existed, would man have evolved as he did, in the time frame too?

The dinosaurs never existed?! :w00t:

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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#63    seeder

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:52 PM

View PostHazzard, on 29 August 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

The dinosaurs never existed?! :w00t:

eh?

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#64    seeder

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 01:21 PM

View PostSkepticalB, on 28 August 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

what a weird question.

Well thats your opinion just,  but its one that has so far not been answered, I was trying to call codemonger out.... he is quick to trash others views but very  slow to offer his own.

The situation in a nutshell is, we have one well known skeptic saying the arrival of the human form, or bipedal primate to use the exact phrase, was such a chance development amongst the millions of other developing species.

But then on the other hand, we have  the ufo crowd who seemingly think the humanoid shape is a given throughout the universe, and that aliens will be similar to us.  But we only arrived at our form through the specific pattern of evolution on earth, and early climate changes - and the exploitation of disasters that killed the then number one predator, the dinos.

So, without some of  the previous life forms, incl the dinos, would man have evolved into his current form, anyway?

So I dont think its a 'weird' question at all. Perhaps you can answer it though?


typos

Edited by seeder, 29 August 2013 - 01:31 PM.

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored
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"The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it"

#65    qxcontinuum

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 02:06 PM

i also believe the intelligent life forms, must have a head, legs to walk and hands to grab and use technologies. So yes humanoid shape can be universally accepted.
If we're thinking to alien forms in the shape of fish or animals we are wrong. How can a dolphin use a hammer or built a flying ufo w/o having hands and walking around it.  you get the picture.

The organs might vary , or the skin , eyes, nose etc...

Edited by qxcontinuum, 29 August 2013 - 02:08 PM.


#66    Timonthy

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 02:21 PM

View Postqxcontinuum, on 29 August 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

i also believe the intelligent life forms, must have a head, legs to walk and hands to grab and use technologies. So yes humanoid shape can be universally accepted.
If we're thinking to alien forms in the shape of fish or animals we are wrong. How can a dolphin use a hammer or built a flying ufo w/o having hands and walking around it.  you get the picture.

The organs might vary , or the skin , eyes, nose etc...
Well if the dolphin had hands and was amphibious it would be fine!

Edit: See - this guy could build a spaceship easily:


Edited by Timonthy, 29 August 2013 - 02:26 PM.

Posted Image


#67    seeder

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 03:09 PM

View Postqxcontinuum, on 29 August 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

i also believe the intelligent life forms, must have a head, legs to walk and hands to grab and use technologies. So yes humanoid shape can be universally accepted.
If we're thinking to alien forms in the shape of fish or animals we are wrong. How can a dolphin use a hammer or built a flying ufo w/o having hands and walking around it.  you get the picture.

The organs might vary , or the skin , eyes, nose etc...

so if the aliens are indeed a humanoid form with hands and perhaps crucially, an opposable thumb, then what led to them evolving on their planet, and what did they evolve from? An alien version of apes?

Or did they somehow side step all the twists and turns that evolution and climate change may have created on their planet, including such a long evolutionary period?

heres a thought. Lets say you have a thousand wooden blocks, each numbered from one to 1000 - right?  Though not in sequence, so the numbers could start - 999, 2, 27, 45, 789, etc etc....These blocks can represent dna.

So, we know for example, in the case of the human form, the numbers of each of the 1000 blocks that gave rise to the human form,  But most importantly their sequence in the 'dna' chain

So now, what will be the odds, of you casting a thousand wooden blocks on the ground, and arriving at the exact same number sequence used to make a human form?

  I believe this is a simplified way of saying what the skeptic Shermer said... but Im rushing to go out and buy a car so hope it makes sense the way ive said it...



.

Edited by seeder, 29 August 2013 - 03:18 PM.

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored
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"The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it"

#68    JesseCuster

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 05:07 PM

View Postqxcontinuum, on 29 August 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

i also believe the intelligent life forms, must have a head, legs to walk and hands to grab and use technologies. So yes humanoid shape can be universally accepted.
But why human like legs and arms?  Why not like an octopus with many similar prehensile boneless limbs for walking, toolmaking, manipulating things, etc.?

Perhaps there's intelligent life out there is like apes that walk on all fours, but still have human like hands that they can use for manipulating, grasping, tool-making, etc.

And why a head?  Again why not like an octopus where the torso and head are the same thing and the limbs sprout from that?

Why two eyes on the front of the head?  Why not on the side of the heads like some creatures, giving them a much wider field of view?  Why not freaky chameleon like independently moving eyes?  Why not a bunch of eyes on stalks?

Why not a muzzle like dogs and other animals instead of a flat face like humans?  Perhaps we'll meet an aquatic ET species who needs the equivalent of a diving suit - a pressure suit filled with water suitable for them.

There's a lot of tunnel vision in this thread.  This idea that intelligent life looks like us but just a bit different - taller, skinnier, shorter, bigger eyes, etc. - seems to show a lack of imagination.

There's so many factors and accidents over millions of years that lead to homo sapiens that I find it extremely doubtful that given a different environment (atmosphere, gravity, rival species, prey and predator species), different unpredictable factors (gamma ray bursts, giant meteor strikes, etc.), and the randomness to the mutations that drive evolution, I find it very hard to imagine that if and when intelligent life develops on another planet, it'll look like us but just skinnier, or a bit taller, or with bigger eyes, etc.

The idea that humans look a certain way and they're the only intelligent civilised species we know, therefore we can assume other intelligent species on other planets will look the same doesn't make the sense.  The thing about a sample size of one is that given no other information we can infer nothing about intelligent life elsewhere.  We simply have no information to go on and given the variety of life that has developed in this single planet, who knows what will evolve on a planet with an entirely different environment and history.

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman

#69    Skep B

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 05:48 PM

View Postseeder, on 29 August 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

Well thats your opinion just,  but its one that has so far not been answered, I was trying to call codemonger out.... he is quick to trash others views but very  slow to offer his own.

The situation in a nutshell is, we have one well known skeptic saying the arrival of the human form, or bipedal primate to use the exact phrase, was such a chance development amongst the millions of other developing species.

But then on the other hand, we have  the ufo crowd who seemingly think the humanoid shape is a given throughout the universe, and that aliens will be similar to us.  But we only arrived at our form through the specific pattern of evolution on earth, and early climate changes - and the exploitation of disasters that killed the then number one predator, the dinos.

So, without some of  the previous life forms, incl the dinos, would man have evolved into his current form, anyway?

So I dont think its a 'weird' question at all. Perhaps you can answer it though?


typos

Well, its still weird, but ok.

lemme answer your question with another question.

Would foxes have evolved the same way had iguanas never existed?

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#70    qxcontinuum

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 06:40 PM

well there could be also non material life forms like energetic beings that are capable of manipulating and create matter. We know that everything including stones are radiating energy so why not there could be different hierarchies of energies, from simple ones similar to small life forms to big complex ones similar to humans. In fact we humans might have another body (the energetic one) that could be another type of Life forms we are yet unaware off.

However to answer to a few questions. Yes there could be tentacles instead of hands but they must have fingers as for grabbing smaller things so obviously;y it will start looking more like a hand.
The head is needed to hold the brain and it must be protected by a solid bone structure, it that cannot be in the stomach or walking area , or day by day activities (hands) area for a variety of obvious reasons.

The eyes can only be in the front close to each other for 3 dimensional processing (predators) otherwise that specie will never make it. Always will stay in the shape of a prey.

The face can be different, with muzzle or hair or anything you might think off, but that inteligent creature must have

1) legs for moving
2) hands with fingers for grabbing and do things
3) head with bone structure separated by the rest of the body
4) a body

by the way;  more than 4 legs can actually slow down a land animal. 4 legs are the most advanced and efficient. Humans walking in two legs like birds are almost handicapped and an obvious joke of evolution.

Edited by qxcontinuum, 29 August 2013 - 06:51 PM.


#71    seeder

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 06:48 PM

View Postqxcontinuum, on 29 August 2013 - 06:40 PM, said:

The eyes can only be in the front close to each other for 3 dimensional processing (predators) otherwise that specie will never make it.


Just a quick note till I settle down for proper browsing later...sharks, are a top predator. Eyes on side of heads...they made it pretty well

But I get what you mean..



"A shark's eyes are almost on completely different sides of its head, so the shark has a nearly 360-degree field of vision. The shark does have two major blind spots, which are right in front of the snout and right behind the head, and because sharks can only see about 50 feet (15 meters) ahead, the sense of sight is really only important to a shark once it has closed in on its prey"

[source: SeaWorld].



.

Edited by seeder, 29 August 2013 - 06:52 PM.

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me... It's all the rabbit poop you stumble over on your way down...
“It's easier to fool people - than to convince them that they have been fooled.”  Mark Twain

"The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it"

#72    qxcontinuum

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 06:53 PM

Because they are living in an environment where there is not competition to their size and velocity.


#73    seeder

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:09 PM

View Postqxcontinuum, on 29 August 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

Because they are living in an environment where there is not competition to their size and velocity.

Except for the Orca's and large squid of course


Several populations of skilled orcas around the world have learned how to overcome sharks using a combination of superior brain power and brute force.

The Great White and Mako are just two of at least nine species of shark known to be eaten by some orca families.

http://www.telegraph...eat-sharks.html



.

Edited by seeder, 29 August 2013 - 07:11 PM.

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me... It's all the rabbit poop you stumble over on your way down...
“It's easier to fool people - than to convince them that they have been fooled.”  Mark Twain

"The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it"

#74    qxcontinuum

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:15 PM

View Postseeder, on 29 August 2013 - 07:09 PM, said:

Except for the Orca's and large squid of course


Several populations of skilled orcas around the world have learned how to overcome sharks using a combination of superior brain power and brute force.

The Great White and Mako are just two of at least nine species of shark known to be eaten by some orca families.

http://www.telegraph...eat-sharks.html
.

Then perhaps is a battle of power and  supremacy. I would not be surprised to see Orcas and dolphins in the future winning and becoming the predominant species in the top of the trophic chain. I mean we know they are already capable of very complex thinking including vocabulary and emotions like love to their pair or babies in the same time revenge against killers and fisherman. They are smart creatures comparing to those dumb ass sharks using tons of jaw power but brainless.

Edited by qxcontinuum, 29 August 2013 - 07:17 PM.


#75    seeder

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:26 PM

View Postseeder, on 29 August 2013 - 07:09 PM, said:

Except for the Orca's and large squid of course


Several populations of skilled orcas around the world have learned how to overcome sharks using a combination of superior brain power and brute force.

The Great White and Mako are just two of at least nine species of shark known to be eaten by some orca families.

http://www.telegraph...eat-sharks.html



.


sorry to quote myself, but in case anyone didnt read the orca link, pls do read this bit from it. WOW I thought...

"The most impressive strategy is the 'karate chop'," said expert Dr Ingrid Visser, 43, who has studied orca behaviour for 17 years.
"The orca will use its tail to drive the shark to the surface. They don't even touch it. Using an up-thrust of its tail it creates a vortex which pushes the shark up on they current they create with their movements.

"Once the shark is at the surface, the killer whale pivots and lifts its tail out of the water and comes down on top of it like a karate chop."

The orca then grasps the shark and turns it upside down - suggesting that they may somehow understand shark biology.   When sharks are quickly flipped upside down, they enter a paralysed state known as 'tonic immobility'.

"It's not that the orca understands the physiology of the shark," said Dr Visser, from Tutukaka, North Island, New Zealand.. "But it does demonstrate that they understand the behavioural consequences of what will happen if they take a certain action.


And I thought Free Willy was about a soppy whale



.

Edited by seeder, 29 August 2013 - 07:29 PM.

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me... It's all the rabbit poop you stumble over on your way down...
“It's easier to fool people - than to convince them that they have been fooled.”  Mark Twain

"The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it"




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