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Scientific American-7 Most Misunderstood Word

science communication understanding terminology

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#31    Eldorado

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 08:51 AM

lol @ 'common folks'


#32    Elfin

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 08:54 AM

View PostEldorado, on 30 August 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

lol @ 'common folks'

I think he slipped up and revealed a bit too much with that one.


#33    cacoseraph

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:11 AM

i kind of suspect some of the contributors to this thread don't possess any extraordinary knowledge about any given field?  common folk, lay people, just can not understand the lingo of a specialized field.  that is fine, to be expected, really.  but, to expect all specialized field workers to conform their parlance to that which an uneducated person could understand?  laughable!  i possess specialized knowledge in at least two fields. computer programming and invertebrate biology and taxonomy.  to accurately and concisely describe things and events in a useful manner our parlance basically requires that we separate from the lingo used by the bulk of humans in their average case.   if you can't understand that then i suspect that most scientific discourse is just going FLY over your head.  in specialized disciplines the accuracy and unambiguity of the text we use so far exceeds that of normal people in the normal course of their normal lives that at some point it splits off from normal language.  as far as i can tell, such a thing is unavoidable.


#34    Eldorado

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:14 AM

LOL


#35    Elfin

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:27 AM

View Postcacoseraph, on 30 August 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

i kind of suspect some of the contributors to this thread don't possess any extraordinary knowledge about any given field?  common folk, lay people, just can not understand the lingo of a specialized field.  that is fine, to be expected, really.  but, to expect all specialized field workers to conform their parlance to that which an uneducated person could understand?  laughable!  i possess specialized knowledge in at least two fields. computer programming and invertebrate biology and taxonomy.  to accurately and concisely describe things and events in a useful manner our parlance basically requires that we separate from the lingo used by the bulk of humans in their average case.   if you can't understand that then i suspect that most scientific discourse is just going FLY over your head.  in specialized disciplines the accuracy and unambiguity of the text we use so far exceeds that of normal people in the normal course of their normal lives that at some point it splits off from normal language.  as far as i can tell, such a thing is unavoidable.

Yes, all special interest groups invent their own jargon. It's when they start telling the rest of us that their jargon is correct, and our own use of the language isn't, that the problems arise.


#36    cacoseraph

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:33 AM

View PostElfin, on 30 August 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

Yes, all special interest groups invent their own jargon. It's when they start telling the rest of us that their jargon is correct, and our own use of the language isn't, that the problems arise.

it is when the lay person tells the scientists that their jargon is incorrect that problems arise.  you clearly seem to seek to limit scientists to the abilities of average people.  that is the oldest recipe for mediocrity and the death of advancement!


#37    Elfin

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:40 AM

View Postcacoseraph, on 30 August 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

it is when the lay person tells the scientists that their jargon is incorrect that problems arise.  you clearly seem to seek to limit scientists to the abilities of average people.  that is the oldest recipe for mediocrity and the death of advancement!

It's not that their jargon is "incorrect". Like all jargon it deliberately differs from pre-existing usage. So, when misunderstandings arise, the responsibility lies with those who have changed the usage.


#38    cacoseraph

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:46 AM

Ahhh the LCD argument.  Least common denominator.  Always the way up and forward!  There are science writers to break down the current understanding for the uneducated.  All kinds of 3 color pictures and everything!  Trite similes and metaphors included!


#39    Elfin

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 10:05 AM

View Postcacoseraph, on 30 August 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

Ahhh the LCD argument.  Least common denominator.  Always the way up and forward!  There are science writers to break down the current understanding for the uneducated.  All kinds of 3 color pictures and everything!  Trite similes and metaphors included!

Would you like it if I started using a whole load of Wiccan and Pagan jargon to you, and told you you were ignorant and uneducated for not understanding it? It is not only conducive to misunderstanding, but pure bad manners to do so.

P.S. Do I come across as uneducated to you?


#40    cacoseraph

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 10:11 AM

View PostElfin, on 30 August 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

Would you like it if I started using a whole load of Wiccan and Pagan jargon to you, and told you you were ignorant and uneducated for not understanding it? It is not only conducive to misunderstanding, but pure bad manners to do so.

P.S. Do I come across as uneducated to you?

If i gave a single jot of care for paganism I would educate myself on the parlance of the field experts.  Given as how i... don't, the personally directed question is basically irrelevant.


I wouldn't care to bring this general discussion down to an accusation of exactly personal abilities.  Nor would I want to accidentally confuse any of the participants when educational moments are still to be had.


#41    Elfin

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 10:48 AM

View Postcacoseraph, on 30 August 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

If i gave a single jot of care for paganism I would educate myself on the parlance of the field experts.  Given as how i... don't, the personally directed question is basically irrelevant.


I wouldn't care to bring this general discussion down to an accusation of exactly personal abilities.  Nor would I want to accidentally confuse any of the participants when educational moments are still to be had.

So how come those who have no interest in science are regarded as ignorant if they don't know scientific jargon? That sounds like double standards.


#42    cacoseraph

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 11:25 AM

View PostElfin, on 30 August 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

So how come those who have no interest in science are regarded as ignorant if they don't know scientific jargon? That sounds like double standards.


just because I don't personally care to commit to a position regarding such things on these forums at this time, don't think for an instant that science hasn't reckoned that kind of person down to the meme for an instant :)

edit:
https://www.google.c...chrome&ie=UTF-8 ;) ;)

i used to be hecka good at slow pitch softball AAHAHAHAHHAAAA!

Edited by cacoseraph, 30 August 2013 - 11:26 AM.


#43    Elfin

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 12:23 PM

View Postcacoseraph, on 30 August 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

just because I don't personally care to commit to a position regarding such things on these forums at this time, don't think for an instant that science hasn't reckoned that kind of person down to the meme for an instant :)

edit:
https://www.google.c...chrome&ie=UTF-8 ;) ;)

i used to be hecka good at slow pitch softball AAHAHAHAHHAAAA!

What is it about science that induces so much insufferable arrogance in some of its advocates?


#44    FurthurBB

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 12:36 PM

View PostElfin, on 30 August 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

What is it about science that induces so much insufferable arrogance in some of its advocates?

What is it about antiscience that induces so much insufferable arrogance in some of its advocates?


#45    Elfin

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 01:04 PM

View PostFurthurBB, on 30 August 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:


What is it about antiscience that induces so much insufferable arrogance in some of its advocates?

You mean hardcore Christians and people like that? Presumably because they are just as elitist and exclusivist.






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