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Ministers face sack over Syria shambles


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#1    questionmark

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 04:15 PM

The Telegraph said:

At least five Government ministers face the sack in the wake of David Cameron’s humiliating failure to secure parliamentary backing for military strikes against the Syrian regime.


Alan Duncan, David Gauke and Steve Webb failed to return from holiday to support the Government, angering the Prime Minister, according to sources.


Justine Greening, the International Development Secretary, and Mark Simmonds, a junior Foreign Office minister, claim to have not realised that voting had begun as they were in a meeting. Commons officials said the explanation was baffling as it “would have been clear” that a vote was happening.

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So to add insult to injury Cameron is going to play "mental dwarf's revenge"?

Edited by questionmark, 31 August 2013 - 04:15 PM.

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#2    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 04:46 PM

wELL, I THINK THAT'S FAIR ENOUGH, IF THEY WERe (caps lock still on) if they were supposed to be deciding whether to commit the country to War you might have reasonably expected them to make an effort.

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#3    libstaK

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 04:53 PM

If Cameron needed them there, he should've postponed calling a vote until he was sure they would be back, it does seem he rushed straight into judgement.  The UN hasn't come to any conclusion as yet, why is Britain diving in nose first?

Edited by libstaK, 31 August 2013 - 04:53 PM.

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#4    questionmark

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 04:58 PM

View PostlibstaK, on 31 August 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

If Cameron needed them there, he should've postponed calling a vote until he was sure they would be back, it does seem he rushed straight into judgement.  The UN hasn't come to any conclusion as yet, why is Britain diving in nose first?

That is called ACTIONISM and all politicians lacking a clear plan for the future fall into that.

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#5    Setton

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 05:55 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 31 August 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

So to add insult to injury Cameron is going to play "mental dwarf's revenge"?

No, he's firing people who can't be bothered to do the job we pay them for. They have insanely good holidays and pay. If the country needs them to make a decision, they can damn well turn up and miss a couple of days holiday.

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#6    skookum

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 07:13 PM

View PostSetton, on 31 August 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

No, he's firing people who can't be bothered to do the job we pay them for. They have insanely good holidays and pay. If the country needs them to make a decision, they can damn well turn up and miss a couple of days holiday.

No mate it has to be drummed up to look  like the evil politicians of the UK are persecuting the only few good ones left.  

On the other hand they could have just turned up and played democracy and voted no.

As usual the two biggest UK haters on this forum think it is a big deal.  I just feel sorry for them as it can't be nice going through life with such utter bitterness.

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#7    Frank Merton

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 07:23 PM

Cameron should have been able to get the toothless resolution passed; I read that as more of a signal against him than anything else.


#8    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 07:29 PM

View Postskookum, on 31 August 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

No mate it has to be drummed up to look  like the evil politicians of the UK are persecuting the only few good ones left.  

On the other hand they could have just turned up and played democracy and voted no.

As usual the two biggest UK haters on this forum think it is a big deal.  I just feel sorry for them as it can't be nice going through life with such utter bitterness.
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#9    Black Red Devil

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 08:20 PM

They're facing the sack for doing the right thing?

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#10    Leonardo

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 08:26 PM

Considering the margin of defeat was 12 votes, it makes no sense to blame these 5 for Cameron's loss. Sure, rebuke them, demote them, whatever for failing to "attend to their duty" - but if Cameron is really looking to fire them, that just smacks of scapegoating.

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#11    TSS

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 08:37 PM

View PostBlack Red Devil, on 31 August 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

They're facing the sack for doing the right thing?

The right thing? what nothing you mean. They are paid to attend parliament to vote on important issues like going to war, if they can't do that then get another job.

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#12    Frank Merton

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 08:41 PM

I find the horrible deaths of several hundred children morally so abhorrent that the fact that the whole world is not invading this miserable little place and putting an end to it is the real moral outrage.


#13    Black Red Devil

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:05 PM

View PostSky Scanner, on 31 August 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

The right thing? what nothing you mean. They are paid to attend parliament to vote on important issues like going to war, if they can't do that then get another job.

Try a bit of analytical thinking before blasting away with your emotions.  Cameron wants to sack the ministers because he didn't win the vote and he's finding scapegoats.  He lost by 13 so a couple that were away on permission, which had the right to do so, wouldn't have affected the overall result anyway.

31 abstained because his reasons for intervention weren't good enough as explained in the article by one of the ministers.  They probably didn't vote "No" to avoid him the ultimate humiliation, so they abstained.

Quote

David Davis, the former shadow home secretary, said Mr Cameron had used a “shaky argument” when he had asked Parliament to “kill people”.
“What he said was that they couldn’t prove it [the case against the Syrian president Bashar al-Assad] outright,” Mr Davis said. “He used the words 'a matter of judgment’ several times, and that’s actually quite a shaky argument when you’re going to kill people.”

The reason Cameron got p..ssed off is because he probably got blasted by the US for the lack of support.  You know, something like "when we tell you to jump, YOU JUMP".

Edited by Black Red Devil, 31 August 2013 - 09:56 PM.

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#14    TSS

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:12 PM

View PostBlack Red Devil, on 31 August 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

Try a bit of analytical thinking before blasting away with your emotions.  Cameron wants to sack the ministers because he didn't win the vote and he's finding scapegoats.  He lost by 13 so a couple that were away on permission, which had the right to do so, wouldn't have affected the overall result anyway.

31 abstained because he's reasons for intervention weren't good enough as explained in the article by one of the ministers.  They probably didn't vote "No" to avoid him the ultimate humiliation, so they abstained.



The reason Cameron got p..ssed off is because he probably got blasted by the US for the lack of support.  You know, something like "when we tell you to jump, YOU JUMP".

Yeah i'm well aware what the result was thanks, I watched the entire debate through both houses.

I don't care if they voted for or against, i'm not bothered either way. My point is they are paid high wages to do a job, and if they can't cut their holidays short or make sure they are in the house on time to vote on something as important as military action then they deserve the sack. Bare in mind that it could have gone the other way by a few votes, and their votes might have stopped military intervention - so don't start singing their praises just because the vote came back as a no.....they deserve the sack for not doing the job they are paid to do.

Edit - spelling

Edited by Sky Scanner, 31 August 2013 - 09:26 PM.

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#15    Black Red Devil

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:23 PM

View PostSky Scanner, on 31 August 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

Yeah i'm well aware what the result was thanks, I watched the entire debate through both houses.

I don't care if they voted for or against, i'm not bothered either way. My point is they are paid high wages to do a job, and if they can't cut their holidays short or make sure they are in the house on time to vote on something as important as military action then they deserve the sack. Bare in mind that it could have gone the other way by a few votes, and their votes might have stopped military intervention - so don't start signing their praises just because the vote came back as a no.....they deserve the sack for not doing the job they are paid to do.

You won't get an argument out of me if you're mocking the lucrative lifestyles of politicians, many of which are as useless as t..ts on a bull.  But I'm sure that isn't the "true" reason Cameron got irked off.

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