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Free-floating planets may be born free

exoplanets rogue planets rosette nebula

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#16    spacecowboy342

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:28 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 03 September 2013 - 02:14 AM, said:

If it was a well built Dyson Sphere you wouldn't see it at all, as it would absorb all the interior energy. I guess there would still be reflection. But, I'd collecte even that if it was my sphere.

Then I'd take all that collected energy and use it to make a laser to send my light sail ship off to other systems. Hummm...... But, then they'd see the light....
I don't know, if the laser didn't happen to point right at us would we see it? Lasers don't spread much and the beam is pretty much invisible unless it hits some dust or something to reflect some of the light


#17    cacoseraph

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:31 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 03 September 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

Well one chance in 20 billion is pretty low and would indicate we would not expect it during the life of the sun.
But that would just be an instantaneous chance.  Like, is there one here now.  I can't do a better chance without a lot more data and mathematical ability than I have.  I expect, just kind of guessing from the data at hand, that the instant odds aren't going to go up and even the long term odds shouldn't be *too* much higher than that, though.

View PostStarMountainKid, on 03 September 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

As someone in the other thread suggests, maybe one of these is a Dyson sphere. I think it would have a different reflective surface than a planet, so it would be easy to spot. Just my imagination going its own way.
I freaking LOVE Dyson Spheres.  And ringworlds.  And Ringworld, by Larry Niven.

View PostDieChecker, on 03 September 2013 - 02:14 AM, said:

If it was a well built Dyson Sphere you wouldn't see it at all, as it would absorb all the interior energy. I guess there would still be reflection. But, I'd collecte even that if it was my sphere.

Then I'd take all that collected energy and use it to make a laser to send my light sail ship off to other systems. Hummm...... But, then they'd see the light....

The onion skin designs for dyson spheres theoretically have almost no radiation leakage, but I don't think i've seen one that is 100% efficient, even in crazy super tech designs.  But the leakage is like, tiny, tiny, tiny.  Less than a small brown dwarf.  So, not something we could easily detect unless it was really close to us, currently.

Also, I was going to say the amount of energy they get from the interior is so much greater than what they could get from the exterior there would be no point... but that *wouldn't* be the point, eh?


#18    onereaderone

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:49 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 03 September 2013 - 02:14 AM, said:

Then I'd take all that collected energy and use it to make a laser to send my light sail ship off to other systems. Hummm...... But, then they'd see the light....

why  not  shape  your   planets  magnetic  feild...   and  pull  on  the  hydrogen  ion's  in  one  direction  only....  and  pull  your  self  thru  space ....


#19    cacoseraph

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:56 AM

View Postonereaderone, on 03 September 2013 - 02:49 AM, said:

why  not  shape  your   planets  magnetic  feild...   and  pull  on  the  hydrogen  ion's  in  one  direction  only....  and  pull  your  self  thru  space ....

I think the problems associated with a Bussard ramjet would apply here, only way more so. http://en.wikipedia..../Bussard_ramjet  Particularly, pay attention to the drag issues.

And that is best case.  Worst case, there are so little interstellar hydrogen atoms and molecules that even a perfectly efficient machine would take eons to accelerate a nontrivial mass to significant speeds just by stealing the kinetic energy of hydrogen.  It is a fun idea, though.  And I could be wrong, the math is probably beyond me.


#20    onereaderone

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:57 AM

the  dyson sphere concept  as  a  living surface  for  crew would  be  better  as  a space ship  design   than  as a planet culture .
controlling  a stars  bursts  as  a  thrust  force  to  move  the  collective  dyson  sphere  seems  to  make  some  sense  to me .
but  the  creatures  that  occupie  such a ship  would  need  tobe  genarational  and  like  us...

(  not  likly)


#21    onereaderone

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 03:05 AM

View Postcacoseraph, on 03 September 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:

I think the problems associated with a Bussard ramjet would apply here, only way more so. http://en.wikipedia..../Bussard_ramjet  Particularly, pay attention to the drag issues.

And that is best case.  Worst case, there are so little interstellar hydrogen atoms and molecules that even a perfectly efficient machine would take eons to accelerate a nontrivial mass to significant speeds just by stealing the kinetic energy of hydrogen.  It is a fun idea, though.  And I could be wrong, the math is probably beyond me.

the  drag  issues are  not  the  concern you  point  out  so  clearly...    because  your  not  driving  it  around  like  a car...
the  power  is  the  planets  core ...   or  a  superconductor set of  dyson rings   ,  each   holding  the  next  ring out side  it  open  .

the  first (  inner  most  ring)   held  open  by  the  magnetic  field  of  the  planet .....

the  whole  planet   magnetic  feild  could  be  quite  large...  effecting   quite  a large  feild  of  all  charged particles   in  the  local  area...


#22    onereaderone

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 03:09 AM

may  i  point  out  .....   if  the  earth  had  such  a  set  on  magnetic  rings....   the  solar  winds  would  pull  the  earth  out  of  orbit  .


#23    StarMountainKid

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 03:11 AM

I've been re-reading up on Dyson spheres, and a solid sphere surrounding a star is impractical for various reasons. For instance, there would be no gravity on the inner surface of the sphere, the sphere would be unstable, at one AU distance from a sun-like star, the surface area of the shell would be 550 million times the surface area of the earth. Where would all this matter come from?, etc..

A Dyson swarm or a Dyson bubble would be better.
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Dyson_sphere

I think a real planet with a sphere around it radiating heat and light might be feasible.

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#24    spacecowboy342

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 03:14 AM

How about a smaller sphere around a red dwarf?


#25    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 03:37 AM

I kinda rather envision a huge city in space (trillions or more population) where everyone has a nice apartment and there are plenty of malls and other public areas.  It could get its energy all sorts of ways other than from a star (actually a very wasteful process) and would radiate in the infra-red, but would have a much smaller profile than anything Dyson imagined.


#26    cacoseraph

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 03:43 AM

View Postonereaderone, on 03 September 2013 - 03:05 AM, said:

the  drag  issues are  not  the  concern you  point  out  so  clearly... because  your  not  driving  it  around  like  a car...
the  power  is  the  planets  core ...   or  a  superconductor set of  dyson rings   ,  each   holding  the  next  ring out side  it  open  .

the  first (  inner  most  ring)   held  open  by  the  magnetic  field  of  the  planet .....

the  whole  planet   magnetic  feild  could  be  quite  large...  effecting   quite  a large  feild  of  all  charged particles   in  the  local  area...

well, no, it totally would.  the drag problem is that any particle included into the field not already having its motion lined up perfectly with the axis of motion of the moving system would impart some element of drag.  considering how large a planet is and the relative power of its magnetic field it is going to have MORE drag than a Bussard.   The Bussard has the particles accelerated internally so that their reaction kinetic energy as they leave the system is MORE than when they enter.  I guess if you could do some magical super science to make the same claim for a planetary system, but then you have super energized particles either passing through your planet or some highly improbably efficient system to both use the planets magnetic field but not have it direct the stream of particles through the planet.

View Postonereaderone, on 03 September 2013 - 03:09 AM, said:

may  i  point  out  .....   if  the  earth  had  such  a  set  on  magnetic  rings....   the  solar  winds  would  pull  the  earth  out  of  orbit  .

They earth already has a magentosphere around it.  Because magnetism is a strong but short range force, to up the planet's magnetosphere to the point it could affect things quite a bit farther away would probably pull our blood apart, render all current electronic devices inoperative, and in the long term, probably eliminate the mangetosphere from protecting us from all kinds of bad stuff (as our planetary core dynamo was drained) AND probably stop normal tectonic activity (again, as our planetary core dynamo was drained) which is also important for long term survival of technological species.



View PostStarMountainKid, on 03 September 2013 - 03:11 AM, said:

I've been re-reading up on Dyson spheres, and a solid sphere surrounding a star is impractical for various reasons. For instance, there would be no gravity on the inner surface of the sphere, the sphere would be unstable, at one AU distance from a sun-like star, the surface area of the shell would be 550 million times the surface area of the earth. Where would all this matter come from?, etc..

A Dyson swarm or a Dyson bubble would be better.
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Dyson_sphere

I think a real planet with a sphere around it radiating heat and light might be feasible.
Nice!  Yeah, I think I remember that alternate Dyson structures are probably better achievable and more likely to be doable.


View Postspacecowboy342, on 03 September 2013 - 03:14 AM, said:

How about a smaller sphere around a red dwarf?
We pretty much just have to see if any of the MIT, Caltech, etc kids have figured it out.



edit:
woowee, the typos are out tonight!

Edited by cacoseraph, 03 September 2013 - 03:46 AM.


#27    Almagest

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 07:59 AM

Doesn't this allow for the possibility of immigrant planets, thrown from one star system and caught in another? Whether it could form a stable orbit with it's new parent star is a question for people with more than a pop science education though.

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#28    cacoseraph

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 08:29 AM

They were always a possibility. I think this just ups the chances.  The math is too hard, but a free planet just barely wafting into a star system shouldn't have too hard of a time being captured for at least a while.  What kind of chaos on the planets existent and how long the orbit will last, couldn't tell you even if you gave me every other variable.

Edited by cacoseraph, 03 September 2013 - 08:29 AM.


#29    spacecowboy342

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:10 PM

View Postcacoseraph, on 03 September 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

They were always a possibility. I think this just ups the chances.  The math is too hard, but a free planet just barely wafting into a star system shouldn't have too hard of a time being captured for at least a while.  What kind of chaos on the planets existent and how long the orbit will last, couldn't tell you even if you gave me every other variable.
Could end up being a scenario right out of Velikovski


#30    Almagest

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 01:31 AM

View Postcacoseraph, on 03 September 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

They were always a possibility. I think this just ups the chances.  The math is too hard, but a free planet just barely wafting into a star system shouldn't have too hard of a time being captured for at least a while.  What kind of chaos on the planets existent and how long the orbit will last, couldn't tell you even if you gave me every other variable.

It provides an interesting possibility for a mechanism for Panspermia.

Heaven and hell suppose two distinct species of men, the good and the bad. But the greatest part of mankind float betwixt vice and virtue. - David Hume




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