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Uncovering Genghis Khan's Lost Legacy


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#1    questionmark

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 01:12 PM

Spiegel said:


As competing researchers race to locate Genghis Khan's tomb, discoveries by German and Mongolian archaeologists are shedding light on his son Ögödei's equally impressive accomplishments.

His end didn't begin heroically. The Mongolian ruler simply fell off his horse. His hands and legs must have lost their strength. It was an embarrassing incident from which Genghis Khan never recovered.

Shortly thereafter, a procession of slaves and warriors escorted the ruler's body, wrapped in a white felt blanket, to its final resting place. Slivers of fragrant sandalwood were placed in the grave to prevent insects from gnawing at the body of the Great Khan.

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#2    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 06:35 PM

Amazing!!! Thanks Questionmark!

Article says:
"Tragically for the researchers, hardly anyone has ever heard of Ögödei Khan."

Please journalist...please...

On another hand archaeologist Hüttel said

"There was a Muslim and Chinese quarter here, Buddhist temples and mosques, and even a Christian church,"
Mongolia was secular state with religious freedoms. And:

"Without Ögödei, today's Mongolia would not exist."
Bravo Huttel, explain that to journalist.


Big Bad Voodoo

Edited by Big Bad Voodoo, 03 September 2013 - 06:40 PM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#3    Aggie

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 07:14 PM

According to DNA most of us are his legacy.

No matter what happens....never stop believing in people.....never stop believing in love♥♥

#4    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 07:30 PM

One on 500 Asian have same ancestor- Temujin. 16 million people. Cca.

Big Bad Voodoo

Edited by Big Bad Voodoo, 03 September 2013 - 07:30 PM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#5    Aggie

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 07:34 PM

View PostBig Bad Voodoo, on 03 September 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

One on 500 Asian have same ancestor- Temujin. 16 million people. Cca.

Big Bad Voodoo

Many of us Caucasian also have his genes: 1 in 200 men are direct descendant of Gengis.

http://blogs.discove...n/#.UiY5jTaRAYM

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#6    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 07:38 PM

View PostAggie, on 03 September 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

Many of us Caucasian also have his genes: 1 in 200 men are direct descendant of Gengis.

http://blogs.discove...n/#.UiY5jTaRAYM

Mongol invasion od Causasian is my favourite story about Mongols when you want to describe their military power.
I will search for one post. Wait.

View PostBig Bad Voodoo, on 29 June 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

Thanks jmccr8 . Here is one interesting story about Mongols.

This will be my last post to proove my point. Whole story about Mongol is as al Athir said :“History books do not contain nothing similar or even close to it.“
Look what al Athir wrote also:
„People emerges from border of China, before year pass some of them reach land of Armenia and go beyond (about this I will wrote in my post)….When long time pass and someone sees this record of this event will refuse to accept it and think of most unlikely, although truth is his hands..Since comming Prophet untill present time Muslims have not suffer this such hardship and misery as afflicting now.“

When I start exploring Mongols I thought I will learn about these nomads in a week or so. Then I realize that history of steppe is very complicated. Very long. And very interesting. Obedience of Temujin army was nothing world seen before and ever since. Their diplomacy. Their psychological war. Their tactics for destroying siege tactics were amazing. Such as building the dam then releasing water. They put dead people on catapult and throw it into city to spread black death. Mongol legacy was black death in Europe.They were worst nightmare for settle societies. Lived close to earth. Like tribes in North and South America and Africa. I have many paintings about steppe people from historical books which I can upload if you desire. Mongols have had spy network. Subutai met Venetians who gave him maps.
When Temujin created state he didnt proclaim him ruler of state. But ruler of „all who dwell in tents“. Meaning ruler of all who built houses. So when they came for example in Persia, or Russia…They look upon those people as their citizens already. And if you dared to say something against Temujin or Mongolia you would not be considered external enemy of Mongolia but rebel. And punishment for rebellion was death. It was your own problem to not knowing law. Not knowing law (which they created far in Mongolia) doesnt save you from it.

Crusades were going. Georgians promised Pope that they will participate in Crusade and promise Pope army which they gather. They were ready to launch attack on Islam. 70 000 knights and 30 000 Cumans or Kypchaks Turks, another steppe people, under George IV of Georgia. But what George didnt know was that Subutai ask Temujin to allow his expedition to the west with 30 000 Mongols. Mongols first time clashed with Christians were on Caucasus in Goergia. In 1221. When Subutai launch attack on this already gathered army, even outnumbered, arrows riped the air. It was usual Mongol tactic. Releasing arrows, runing around border lines, killing much of enemies as you can. And it was done in total silence. No drama. No drums. Drums start playing only when mounted heavy cavalry charged in battle, with swords, maces, spears. When arrows worked none Mongols would made a sound. Drums were psychological attack and heavy cavalry for finishing battles. When heavy cavalry enter in battle you know its already over. Anyway, Georgians start to attack Mongols. They marched. Mongols retreat so Georgians were spread. They followed Mongols. What Georgians didnt know was that Subutai and Jebe leave some of their troops in the rear hidden. And when Mongol horses were tired (you can imagine how was tired Georgian army under armor) they mounted new fresh horses and launch counter attack while hidden army attack from rear. Mongol heavy cavalry under Jebe clash with Georgians. George IV fled. After they deleted Georgian army rest of Georgians in cities expected attack. Two week pass and nothing. They were confused. Army for crusade was destroyed (by Mongol scouting army). Subutai went in Iran for refreshing his army. He asked help from Persian cities. Who didnt provide help was sacked. Simply. When they came back in Georgia, their King was waiting them with new raised army. Only this time George waited them in foothills. They didnt want to go on openfield where Mongols could rape them with their mobility. But there was pass in mountains were Subutai hide 5000 Mongols as ambush. Georgians move beyond that crack exposing their flank and „boom.“ Now Georigians move whole army for 90 degrees to face new treat leaving  exposed flank to Subutai. Almost all were killed by hunt that last for days. Mongols were chasing them as animals. For days. King escape but soon he died. Now in Tblisi on thoren was woman. Queen Rusudan. With no military. She wrote to Pope a letter saying: „Georgians wont be in next crusade.“

Subutai move to one Muslim Shah to seek guides to pass Caucasus. Shah order guides that lead Mongols trough roughest terrain and longest route. While he used shortest path to send messenger to warn others people on other side of Caucasus about incoming terror. So that they must be united against this what they didnt know was scout expedition. When Mongol pass glacier mountain they seen a scene. 50 000 soldiers in formation were waiting for them. Equpied,supplied. Subutai now understand he was manipulated. He tries attack and fails so he retreat. But Mongols saw when they attack that this is a mix army of Christhians, Muslims, Alans, Pagans and Cumans. So Subutai show his diplomacy skills. He sent envoys to Cumans with story how they all are stepe brothers. That they dont have problems with Cumans. We have problems with these others people from cities. We will give you loot and money just leave. Cumans agreed and in morning their left the scene. Subutai destroy rest of this army and start chasing Cumans. Why? Because he wanted his treasure back. He catch Cumans and deleted them too. Now road to Europe was open.

And this is just PART of Subutai EXPEDITION. Imagine what Mongols did when they were on invasion.

In the end lets quote wiki about Subutai:
He directed more than twenty campaigns in which he conquered thirty-two nations and won sixty-five pitched battles, during which he conquered or overran more territory than any other commander in history.[1] He gained victory by means of imaginative and sophisticated strategies and routinely coordinated movements of armies that were hundreds of kilometers away from each other. He is also remembered for devising the campaign that destroyed the armies of Hungary and Poland within two days of each other, by forces over five hundred kilometers apart.


Edited by Big Bad Voodoo, 03 September 2013 - 07:40 PM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#7    Aggie

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 08:05 PM

Very interesting voodoo! I wonder how many of us descend form them, eh?

No matter what happens....never stop believing in people.....never stop believing in love♥♥

#8    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 08:20 PM

View PostAggie, on 03 September 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

Very interesting voodoo! I wonder how many of us descend form them, eh?

You in UK and France almost none. Russian (Kiev Rus) in Europe suffer mostly. Hungarians, Croats, Polish.
But Russians were under Mongols for cca 200 years. Death of Khan saved Europe. If not, there would be no contest at all. They were far better army.
This is what happened next and how Islam world found out for Mongols. They wanted to invade China. Greatest empire of all. Then suddenly they realize there are people stronger then China.

View PostBig Bad Voodoo, on 27 June 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

...When Mongol envoys came they ask for peace in order to that Rus (Chronicles of Novograd) dont do anything when Mongols start extermination of Cumans.
Rus felt comfortable. Not knowing these are not just another nomads. So they cut their heads off. Also because some Boyars were good with Cumans.
Mongols then start to fake retreat. Russians and Cumans ,80 000 of them, followed them in stepe, thinking of them as cowards. Mongols left their animals on the way to deorganized Russians. Russians were streched. They advanced far from home. And one day 21 May 1223, they came in valley and they seen scene. Mongols stop runing. They were waiting for them. In formation. Suddenly smoke appears. Pots of oil put on strategic points to hide Mongol manouver. Front of Russian army was smashed and panic spread. Only Prince of Kiev with 10 000 stayed. Mongols pursuit rest of army killing 40 000 of them. Subotai promised Prince of Kiev safety if they surrender. When they did they kill them anyway. Prince of Kiev was suffocated in box. Rest of 10 000 were tied,lied and on top of them was built wooden floor. Crushing them. And on that floor Mongols have lunch while Russians scream underneath them. Mongols were drinking.
Russians at home were confused who were this people. They appeared, smashed their army and disapear. It was like bad dream. Sadly for Russians they didnt organize defense for future.
So yes. After killing envoys of most deadliest army in world, and chasing them for weeks trough stepe I guess they ask for it....

In 1215 Khwarizmian Shah Mouhammed sent spy/envoy to China, Baha al Din. They were thinking of invading greatest land of all. But when envoy got there he realized something isnt right. As they walk they saw white mountains for which they thinks it was snow. But when they come closer they notice its piles of bones. They found Bejing destroyed and tales of 60 000 virings jumping from walls. Bejing have had million people. 900 battle towers. 13 gates. Subterrainian tunnels which led to others fortified cities.
Baha wrote to Shah that there are some people powerfull to destroy China.

As later ibn al-Athir wrote in "Accounts of Eruption of Tatars in land of Islam": "For several years I continued to avoid this disaster and I was unwilling to reaccount it....the most terrible disaster and misfortune one like passages of days and nights cannot be reproduced......if anyone say: "That since God created Adam until this present time, mankind has not have comparable afliction" he would be spreading a truth .....
...History books do not contain anything similar or anything that comes close to it."



Enjoy.

Big Bad Voodoo :tu:

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#9    Bavarian Raven

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:03 PM

Quote

If not, there would be no contest at all.

Erm...I doubt the mongols could have made it much past germany. Too many castles - not enough men - too far from their supply base. While they did win a majority of battles, it was costing them men and arms. Not only that, but the thick forests of Germany along with its numerous fortifications would have proved cancerous to the mongols... granted, such an attack might have led to an earlier german unification...


#10    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 10:32 AM

Yes Mongols have problems in jungles in Southeast Asia. But they didnt launch their major attack. It was test. Anyway poisionous blowing darts move them from jungles.
Castles where piece of cake for Mongols. That was their favourite type of battle. They improved their skills in China.
They have had enough men. In any battle (almost) they were outnumbered. Also they keep casulity victims low by hiring armies they conquer. Germany was in that time "united." Holy Roman Empire.
But soldiers from west and central Europe were crushed by Mongols too. Forests would gave them hard time. But in their plans they thought on conquering Europe for 17 years to Atlantic ocean. They have had maps and most importantly they know political situation which they would use to turn Europeans agains Europeans.
Anyway on battlefield Europeans were piece of cake for them.
Only thing that could stop Mongols was guerilla fighting. Problem was that they were guerilla too.
Germans were no better then Hungarians, Croats, Poles, Russians, Serbs. They have had same tactic and strategy. Which didnt do any real harm to Mongols.

Big Bad Voodoo

Edited by Big Bad Voodoo, 04 September 2013 - 10:41 AM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."




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