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Ghosts and Time Travel

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#1    petermattson

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 10:28 PM

I have theorized that time travel is not possible because if it was ever to be invented, someone would inevitably give away the secret of it while time traveling, thereby making it something that "always" existed. I realize this theory is problematic but I think it has its practical merits.
I presented this theory to my class, and one of my students posited that perhaps the technology of "invisibility" could also be invented and that would make it possible to time travel without being seen. This led to a discussion about the phenomena of "ghosts" being invisible time travelers.
A quick bit of "research" led me to the fact that my conclusion is not all that original.

http://redstarfilms....are-ghosts.html


Are there any deep thinkers willing to volunteer opinions about this idea?


#2    Vance665

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 10:40 PM

Makes more sense than dead people walking around.


#3    Brian Topp

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 10:44 PM

View Postpetermattson, on 03 September 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

I have theorized that time travel is not possible because if it was ever to be invented, someone would inevitably give away the secret of it while time traveling, thereby making it something that "always" existed. I realize this theory is problematic but I think it has its practical merits.
I presented this theory to my class, and one of my students posited that perhaps the technology of "invisibility" could also be invented and that would make it possible to time travel without being seen. This led to a discussion about the phenomena of "ghosts" being invisible time travelers.
A quick bit of "research" led me to the fact that my conclusion is not all that original.

http://redstarfilms....are-ghosts.html


Are there any deep thinkers willing to volunteer opinions about this idea?

There is a thread back in 2007 about this. I wish I could find it.

It is easier to claim it is paranormal than taking the hard route and find out what really happened.


#4    keninsc

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:14 PM

View Postpetermattson, on 03 September 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

I have theorized that time travel is not possible because if it was ever to be invented, someone would inevitably give away the secret of it while time traveling, thereby making it something that "always" existed. I realize this theory is problematic but I think it has its practical merits.
I presented this theory to my class, and one of my students posited that perhaps the technology of "invisibility" could also be invented and that would make it possible to time travel without being seen. This led to a discussion about the phenomena of "ghosts" being invisible time travelers.
A quick bit of "research" led me to the fact that my conclusion is not all that original.

http://redstarfilms....are-ghosts.html


Are there any deep thinkers willing to volunteer opinions about this idea?

Actually the theory isn't a bad one at all, pretty good really. However, the thing you have to keep in mind is that technology increases in a stair-step manner. We knew that it was theoretically possible to go to the moon at the turn of the twentieth century, but we didn't have the technology available to make it happen. Einstein was able to show very complex theoretical ideas worked on paper but we are only just beginning to be able to verify them and make adjustments based on actual experimentation.

My point being, let's say you popped in from the twenty-sixth century in your time machine, found a top draw physicist and gave him the secret to time travel. That's great but what can he really do with it? Not much because you don't happen to have that 1.21 Terawatt Flux Capacitor which is the basis of the whole design. You see my point? You can't build something with something that you don't have and can't get because it hasn't been invented yet.

The idea of ghosts and UFO's be time travelers from the future is an old one, at least I've heard about it since I was a teen in the sixties.


#5    samus

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 04:43 PM

View PostVance665, on 03 September 2013 - 10:40 PM, said:

Makes more sense than dead people walking around.


I am not sure about that. We know nothing of what is Death and what may come after, so the possibilty of interactions between the living and the dead in some way cannot be ruled out though so far it cannot be proved as well. So, invisible time travel may not make more sens than the spiritism idea. We still have to explain how former pets time travel to our time.. We might have a hard time doing so.

Edited by sam_comm, 04 September 2013 - 04:44 PM.


#6    NightScreams

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 11:42 PM

Theories are fun. After we make some assumptions first for any of this to be plausible, my problem would then be the fact that us humans are too flawed in our natural desires and tendencies to actually be good little time travelers and simply observe and never really interact or turn off that invisible suit to have some fun so to speak or even steal some item that later becomes extremely rare and valuable and to also withhold any sexual desires. Temptation is a powerful demon and for anyone to travel in time without flaw is tough to swallow considering so many questionable things that go on in the professional world of science and other various jobs. Control time travel and you could control the universe, it is not really something that any intelligent being should be allowed to have. At least humans anyway. There will always be that one guy that will want to kill Hitler or use time to travel the universe and possibly screw something else up for some other life forms. No, I don't like the idea of such at all, we are too greedy, too emotional, irrational, petty, self righteous.....you get the idea.

Edited by NightScreams, 05 September 2013 - 11:44 PM.


#7    stevemagegod

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 11:57 PM

Theories are fun to discuss, but i would rather go out and prove these theories if i could.


#8    keninsc

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 01:06 AM

Yeah, but you have to have something you can actually prove before you go out.


#9    petermattson

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 12:22 PM

View Postkeninsc, on 03 September 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

Actually the theory isn't a bad one at all, pretty good really. However, the thing you have to keep in mind is that technology increases in a stair-step manner. We knew that it was theoretically possible to go to the moon at the turn of the twentieth century, but we didn't have the technology available to make it happen. Einstein was able to show very complex theoretical ideas worked on paper but we are only just beginning to be able to verify them and make adjustments based on actual experimentation.

My point being, let's say you popped in from the twenty-sixth century in your time machine, found a top draw physicist and gave him the secret to time travel. That's great but what can he really do with it? Not much because you don't happen to have that 1.21 Terawatt Flux Capacitor which is the basis of the whole design. You see my point? You can't build something with something that you don't have and can't get because it hasn't been invented yet.

The idea of ghosts and UFO's be time travelers from the future is an old one, at least I've heard about it since I was a teen in the sixties.

I do see your point. However, assuming a time machine is a physical thing, it should be able to operate at any time. Perhaps building one would be very difficult but my point was more that we would KNOW that time travel exists because someone would have observed it.


#10    taniwha

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 12:43 PM

View Postpetermattson, on 06 September 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

I do see your point. However, assuming a time machine is a physical thing, it should be able to operate at any time. Perhaps building one would be very difficult but my point was more that we would KNOW that time travel exists because someone would have observed it.

Unless they were invisible.


#11    Arkitecht

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 04:29 PM

Without certain power sources,i.e. two small black holes,then no time travel.Those micro singularities have been created by CERN.So now GE is the contractor for building the machine.They are working on it.Just give them some time.(no pun intended)

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#12    LXC2

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 04:54 PM

How about this one, in the future time travel is possible... to a point. How about they still have absolutely no way to create direct time-travel, but they have a way to create time travel by sending your mind/psyche back in time, which takes on a spiritual form, as it is still your mind floating around. Which in turn is the 'ghost' phenomenon which in turn makes us confused, which in turn give us entertainment like Ghost Hunters, thanks future people for giving us such an awesome bull**** show! I realize this is rambling but I'm just throwing the idea out there.

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#13    keninsc

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 12:53 PM

View Postpetermattson, on 06 September 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

I do see your point. However, assuming a time machine is a physical thing, it should be able to operate at any time. Perhaps building one would be very difficult but my point was more that we would KNOW that time travel exists because someone would have observed it.

How would knowing something exists change anything? We now know that there is nothing in the laws of physics that says time travel is impossible, therefore it's reasonable to assume at some point in time, obviously the future, someone has manage to build one or two. Does that change anything in the here and now? Not really. We still can't built one.

Reminds me of an old joke, a group of student were outside protesting because they access to the time machine being developed. They chanted, "What do we want?! TIME TRAVEL!! When do we want it?! IT'S IRRELEVANT!"

:w00t:


#14    Avallaine

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 01:06 AM

View Postpetermattson, on 06 September 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

I do see your point. However, assuming a time machine is a physical thing, it should be able to operate at any time. Perhaps building one would be very difficult but my point was more that we would KNOW that time travel exists because someone would have observed it.

Unless the travelers take precautions to a) make it harder for them to be observed and B) disguise their origin/the nature of their activity if they are observed.

I've always thought that the primary use in time travel (to the past, anyway) was more along the lines of gathering information than anything else.  So postulate, if you will, a sophisticated recording device in nanotech scale disguised as (or carried by) a small flying insect, sent back in time to solve various riddles of the ages.  We may have observed hundreds or thousands of these "time travelers" already, and thought nothing of them at all...


Oh, and keninsc:

View Postkeninsc, on 07 September 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Reminds me of an old joke, a group of student were outside protesting because they access to the time machine being developed. They chanted, "What do we want?! TIME TRAVEL!! When do we want it?! IT'S IRRELEVANT!"

:w00t:

I second that :w00t:.


#15    Leonardo

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 07:46 PM

View Postpetermattson, on 06 September 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

I do see your point. However, assuming a time machine is a physical thing, it should be able to operate at any time. Perhaps building one would be very difficult but my point was more that we would KNOW that time travel exists because someone would have observed it.

The real issue with the theory involves the nature of time travel. Assuming such a thing is possible, then it would be reasonable to assume you could not travel back in time further than the moment you switched on the time-travel device.

Why?

Because the universe did not contain any information about time travel before then*, and neither did your time machine exist (as a working time travel machine) before then. And time travel cannot happen in a universe without a time travel machine (which the universe was before you invented and switched on yours.)

* There is a way round this, but it relies on assuming time travel was invented (independently of your discovery of it) before you discovered it and invented your machine. And this just adds to the "assumption layers" necessary to justify the reasoning.

Edited by Leonardo, 08 September 2013 - 07:47 PM.

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