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my idea on tax reform.


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#1    danielost

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 02:25 PM

I think we should scrap every tax in the usa, federal state and local, with a few exceptions.

Then we replace it with a sells tax of thirty six percent. With no one having any write offs everyone would be paying their fair share of taxes. This woul be devided between the state and federal givernments, with the states giving cities what they need.

The exceptions should be the gas tax, which should be being sprnt on roads and bridges.  Social security which is an investment more than a tax. School taxex we all benefit from that tax.  And medicare/caid safety net.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

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    Cinicus Magnus

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 02:28 PM

View Postdanielost, on 08 September 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

I think we should scrap every tax in the usa, federal state and local, with a few exceptions.

Then we replace it with a sells tax of thirty six percent. With no one having any write offs everyone would be paying their fair share of taxes. This woul be devided between the state and federal givernments, with the states giving cities what they need.

The exceptions should be the gas tax, which should be being sprnt on roads and bridges.  Social security which is an investment more than a tax. School taxex we all benefit from that tax.  And medicare/caid safety net.

Nice way of putting the tax burden on the poor, guess some billionaire is putting you up for a medal right now.

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#3    danielost

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 02:52 PM

The tax burden is already on the poor.  With the current system, you put more and more taxes out there with the word rich attached to it.  The rich see this as a business expense and pass it on to their custamers.  With my system the rich can't pass it on to the poor by raising prices.  If they raise the prices then they end up paying more in taxes.

No write offs means the rich can't write off their million dolar home as a business expence.  You and I spend around $100 every month per person on food.  How much do you think the rich spend, buying steaks chamgpian(sp ch) caviar.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 03:05 PM

View Postdanielost, on 08 September 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

The tax burden is already on the poor.  With the current system, you put more and more taxes out there with the word rich attached to it.  The rich see this as a business expense and pass it on to their custamers.  With my system the rich can't pass it on to the poor by raising prices.  If they raise the prices then they end up paying more in taxes.

No write offs means the rich can't write off their million dolar home as a business expence.  You and I spend around $100 every month per person on food.  How much do you think the rich spend, buying steaks chamgpian(sp ch) caviar.

Ah, so why are you against taxing the rich then?  Cause the Mormon faith seez that you should give unto the rich or something?

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#5    spartan max2

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 03:35 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 08 September 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

Ah, so why are you against taxing the rich then?  Cause the Mormon faith seez that you should give unto the rich or something?

Its not about the rich its about cutting taxes for everyone.

If you want to help the poor then maybe the government should stop taking over 50 percent of every dollar.

Edited by spartan max2, 08 September 2013 - 03:37 PM.

" I imagine that the intellegent people are the ones so intellegent that they dont even need or want to look "intellegent" anymore".
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Posted 08 September 2013 - 03:43 PM

View Postspartan max2, on 08 September 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

Its not about the rich its about cutting taxes for everyone

Good, now where did you want to save again?

Not on defense
Not on the Intelligence Services
Not on Nasa
Not on Food Safety
Not on Traffic Safety
Not on Law enforcement

Right there we have over 90% of the taxes spent.

And don't come with Social Security, that may be cashed like a tax but it is an entitlement. You cannot cut it for those who are already getting it, and if you want to cut it for the future you have to stop getting the money to pay out the beneficiaries and increase the taxes to pay them.

The fact is that if people are not feeling responsible for a family bond they need a social bond. And the social bond costs money. An as long as you don't create a "Social Extra Governmental Organization" the only ones who can run that show is the government.

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#7    spartan max2

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 03:48 PM

Everyone is migrating out of the over taxed states because its just too expensive to live. This graph shows how the lower taxed states are gaining revenue as the overtaxed states loose insane amount of money. If every state had low taxes then we could more easily offered these social programs.



We increase Revenue we gain money. Then we can afford these programs like NASA and welfare. Kennedy knew this.

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" I imagine that the intellegent people are the ones so intellegent that they dont even need or want to look "intellegent" anymore".
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#8    spartan max2

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 03:52 PM

And as for what programs I would cut.

I would end the drug war. Legalize marijuana

End corporate welfare

Cut imperialist military spending. not defense spending. There is no reason for us to be involved everywhere all the time.

As for all the other agencies and programs I would need a team of experts to help decide because we have an insane amounts of government ran organizations and institutions.

And I would just add that term limits would be a smart idea

Edited by spartan max2, 08 September 2013 - 03:54 PM.

" I imagine that the intellegent people are the ones so intellegent that they dont even need or want to look "intellegent" anymore".
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Posted 08 September 2013 - 04:05 PM

View Postspartan max2, on 08 September 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

Everyone is migrating out of the over taxed states because its just too expensive to live. This graph shows how the lower taxed states are gaining revenue as the overtaxed states loose insane amount of money. If every state had low taxes then we could more easily offered these social programs.



We increase Revenue we gain money. Then we can afford these programs like NASA and welfare. Kennedy knew this.

Posted Image

With a rich to poor gap of Kennedy's time that would have been a usable theory:

Posted Image

The problem is nowadays that 20% make over 50% of all income (ratio 14.5-to-1). Not so long ago that was not the case (ratio 7.69 in 1968 or ~40% making 50% of all income). In those times the taxation formula could have been different.

The solution is not to tax those who earn less and less more and more and those who earn more less and less (the method since Reagan).

View Postspartan max2, on 08 September 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

And as for what programs I would cut.

I would end the drug war. Legalize marijuana

End corporate welfare

Cut imperialist military spending. not defense spending. There is no reason for us to be involved everywhere all the time.

As for all the other agencies and programs I would need a team of experts to help decide because we have an insane amounts of government ran organizations and institutions.

And I would just add that term limits would be a smart idea

Peanuts.

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#10    Jeremiah65

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 04:09 PM

Most of the problems we are seeing...IMHO...is a ridiculous tax code in and of itself.  The scalar income tax is fine, I don't have a problem with that.  There is just so many twists and turns and vague exceptions and deductions...the average person doesn't have a clue.

I'll throw one out that will be a true blue shocker to some of you.  I don't think anyone should get a tax deduction for advertising or entertaining clients....

I know...I just heard a collective gasp...

here is why...

IF I choose to invest in advertising to increase my market share and thus increase the amount of product I am selling...I have, in a sense, made a wise investment that will increase my profits.  Having "joe citizen" pick up the tab because I wanted to hire Michael Jordan to sell my underwear...is bullsh!t to me.

We have an entire industry based on tax loopholes and deductions....advertising.  Screw the advertising firms as far as I am concerned.  If you have a good product, people will buy it.  Paying celebrity endorsers millions and millions of dollars to peddle your junk and then you get to write that off?...fulla-bulla man...I'm sorry.  Why should my taxes stay high so you can avoid paying for your profits on the products your "superstars" have been overpaid to peddle?  Doesn't fly with me.

The rub here is that the average person cannot take advantage of these types of deductions...so...no one can.  Yeah, I am a little salty that some sports star or TV celebrity can make a couple million for saying "drink gator aid"...

if we didn't have all of these "loopholes" then everyone would pay a lower percentage.  My taxes would go down and so would the average person's on the street.  But no...we seem to like seeing the "demigod" celebrities get away with things we cannot.  It's like we are so dumbed down that we have accepted living life vicariously.

I have not.

Corporations...you do not get to deduct advertising costs.  You do not get to deduct $100,00.00 golf outings and cruises.  You are welcome to spend that money to increase your market share and profits, but you cannot deduct them from your taxes.

oh no he didn't!

Edited by Jeremiah65, 08 September 2013 - 04:14 PM.

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 04:13 PM

View PostJeremiah65, on 08 September 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:


Corporations...you do not get to deduct advertising costs.  You do not get to deduct $100,00.00 gold outings and cruises.  You are welcome to spend that money to increase your market share and profits, but you cannot deduct them from your taxes.

oh no he didn't!

Not so long ago bribing foreign dignitaries could be written off taxes as "Useful expenses"... go figure..

I agree with you, the whole tax code should be re-written, put in some brackets according to income with no exceptions. That would save a lot of taxes to those who are not earning over 250k a year.

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#12    danielost

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 04:18 PM

As I said income tax gets passed on a sales tax can't be.


I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#13    questionmark

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    Cinicus Magnus

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 04:28 PM

View Postdanielost, on 08 September 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

As I said income tax gets passed on a sales tax can't be.

You are doing your best to help the richest get another tax break, don'tcha?

Think a little about who is consuming most of their income and who is buying shares (without sales tax) and then you will know why that is a very bad idea.

A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

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#14    Jeremiah65

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 04:30 PM

View Postdanielost, on 08 September 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

As I said income tax gets passed on a sales tax can't be.

It has to somehow be scalar Daniel.

Sales tax sounds good because if you are not buying, you are not being taxed.  If the rich man wants to buy a yacht, he gets taxed for that...sounds good.

The average multi millionaire doesn't spend 50% of their income in a year though.  The average schmuck on the street probably lives week to week and is broke before the next paycheck...this is a harsh reality.

The only way this could even remotely work would be if it was scalar...which means you'd have to have an ID card that got swiped at the counter and would adjust your sales tax according to your income.

Some things would have to be tax exempt....food and medicine for instance.

Top end purchases would have to be way up the scalar charts...luxuries so to speak.

But then you run into a problem with that.

Say I want to buy my wife a really nice diamond for our 25th anniversary.  That is a "luxury".  say I make 60k a year but the luxury tax is 50%....If I buy a $2,000.00 ring, it will be $3,000.00 after taxes....ouch.

Like Herman Cain's "9-9-9" stuff...it won't work.  It sounds good on the surface, but it hurts the lower incomes more.  The lower the income, the more it hurts.  If someone makes $20,000.00 a year, then their tax burden would be $1,800.00 (not counting the state taxes and the 9% sales taxes) so their useable income is now $18,200.00.  If someone makes $100,000.00 a year and pay that same 9% their tax burden is $9,000.00 and their useable income is $91,000.00.

It has to be scalar somehow....you cannot flat tax...even a sales tax...across the board.

I personally would prefer leaving the scalar system in place but get rid of deductions and reduce the abomination of bureaucracy that devours the lions share of our money...that would be nice.

But hey...I'm just a salty feller that doesn't like to pay anything.

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

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#15    spartan max2

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 04:32 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 08 September 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:



The solution is not to tax those who earn less and less more and more and those who earn more less and less (the method since Reagan).


I can agree with that.

We just differ on , I want to lower for low income and high income  groups and you want to lower for low income and raise for high income.

" I imagine that the intellegent people are the ones so intellegent that they dont even need or want to look "intellegent" anymore".
Criss Jami




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