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The sad tale of James IVís body

james iv of scotland henry viii richard iii flodden field

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#1    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 03:00 PM

The sad tale of James IVís body


www.bbc.co.uk said:

Scotland's King James IV was killed at the Battle of Flodden 500 years ago. But what became of his body after the massacre?

Earlier this year, the discovery of the body of Richard III, killed at the Battle of Bosworth in 1485, beneath a car park in Leicester was front-page news.

The obvious implication, that finding long lost kings was a piece of cake, has led to me being repeatedly asked if I am going to look for the body of James IV.
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Edited by Waspie_Dwarf, 09 September 2013 - 03:02 PM.

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#2    Child of Bast

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 03:24 PM

I'm sure his body will eventually be found. Archaeology today doesn't require an entire golf course to be dug up to find one thing. Enough happens before shovel is pushed into soil that there can be little digging involved.

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#3    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 03:47 PM

View PostChild of Bast, on 09 September 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

Enough happens before shovel is pushed into soil that there can be little digging involved.
Find me a golf course that would allow a single green or fairway to be dug up. Archaeology is a wonderful thing but profit will win out over knowledge every time.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#4    Kowalski

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 04:05 PM

Not only was James a warrior King, he got around! :yes:

He had quite a few mistresses, and tons of royal b******* running around! Interesting mystery surrounding the death of Margaret Drummond, one if his favourite mistresses...

Quote


It is definitely known that in 1501 she died of food poisoning, along with her sisters Eupheme and Sibylla, while staying at their parents' residence. As a general rule, claims of poisoning made in relation to a historical figure who died after a sudden illness should be treated with caution, but in this case, with three people who presumably died shortly after eating the same meal, the contemporary judgement should be accepted. The three sisters are buried together in Dunblane Cathedral, their graves can still be seen in front of the altar. This did not cause a great deal of suspicion at the time; standards of food hygiene are unlikely to have been very good then, and cases of accidental food poisoning have happened in any period.

After her death the king paid for masses to be said for her soul, and continued to support their daughter.

Murder theories[edit source | editbeta]

It has been widely suggested in more recent years that Margaret Drummond was murdered, either by English agents or by pro-English elements in the Scottish nobility. Many believe that James IV was planning to or had already secretly married Drummond, and her death was necessary in order to allow or force the King to marry the English princess Margaret Tudor, daughter of Henry VII of England andElizabeth of York. The (comparatively recent) plaque on her grave in Dunblane Cathedral claims that she was commonly believed to be "privately married" to the king, and that she was murdered by Scottish nobles who supported the English marriage.

Furthermore, the "Marriage of the Rose and Thistle", as the poet William Dunbar described it, brought about the Union of the Crownsexactly 100 years later, as it enabled their great-grandson James VI of Scotland to claim the English throne upon the death of Elizabeth I through his descent from Henry VII.

Had James IV married Margaret Drummond instead of Margaret Tudor, the Union of the Crowns might never have taken place and Scotland might have remained an independent country. This idea has been the theme of numerous historical novels and popular histories.

Serious historians are skeptical of the theory. It is not supported by the contemporary evidence, and originates in a history of the Drummond family written by Viscount Strathallan in 1681. Her death was probably a case of accidental food poisoning, a common cause of death at that time. The idea that James had to be pressured to marry Margaret Tudor is dubious. As Scotland was the less important and poorer country, it is more likely that James IV pressured Henry VII to give him his daughter. It is also clear that negotiations for the marriage had been taking place before Margaret Drummond died.


Link: http://en.wikipedia....mmond_(mistress)


#5    Child of Bast

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 04:24 PM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 09 September 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

Find me a golf course that would allow a single green or fairway to be dug up. Archaeology is a wonderful thing but profit will win out over knowledge every time.

I'm sorry I said anything.

No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness. ~ Aristotle

#6    Kowalski

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 05:37 PM

View PostChild of Bast, on 09 September 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

I'm sure his body will eventually be found. Archaeology today doesn't require an entire golf course to be dug up to find one thing. Enough happens before shovel is pushed into soil that there can be little digging involved.

That is true, though. They have equipment that allows them to see all the different layers, in the soil. Pretty cool....


#7    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:20 PM

View PostChild of Bast, on 09 September 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

I'm sorry I said anything.
Don't be so touchy, that was not a dig at you.

I was making the point that, sadly, profit comes before science. I agree that it would be nice if archaeologists could dig wherever they wanted, but in the real world that just isn't going to happen.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#8    spud the mackem

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 10:55 PM

Its in the middle of Celtic's football ground, but you need permission from Eldorado to go and dig it up.

(1) try your best, ............if that dont work.
(2) try your second best, ........if that dont work
(3) give up you aint gonna win

#9    Kowalski

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 12:44 AM

View Postspud the mackem, on 09 September 2013 - 10:55 PM, said:

Its in the middle of Celtic's football ground, but you need permission from Eldorado to go and dig it up.

I would be scared to cross Eldorado..... :(


#10    spud the mackem

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 08:58 AM

View PostBurt Gummer, on 10 September 2013 - 12:44 AM, said:

I would be scared to cross Eldorado..... :(
  Nah,he's just a cuddly auld Scotsman,who hates Celtic.

(1) try your best, ............if that dont work.
(2) try your second best, ........if that dont work
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