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The disappearance of Ray Gricar

ray gricar

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#1411    SuperSmith

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 03:44 PM

For those interested in the PSU/Sandusky angle.........Victim 9, who couldn't reach a prior settlement with PSU, is now suing PSU & Sandusky.

V9 was said to have met JS at a camp in the Summer of 2005, around the same time RG's laptop and hard drive were found.

V9 testimony - http://onwardstate.c...onal-testimony/

V9 suing - http://www.cnn.com/2...suit/index.html

"— Victim 9: Now 18, he testified that he was sexually abused by Sandusky at the Sandusky home where he spent more than a hundred nights in a room in the basement that had a waterbed. He testified he was subject to oral then *spam filter* and screamed for help. He was also abused in a State College hotel and other locations between July 2005 and December 2008, according to prosecutors. He was 12-15 at the time. Sandusky was convicted of involuntary deviate sexual intercourse (two counts), indecent assault, unlawful contact with a minor, corruption of minors, endangering a child's welfare."  http://www.foxnews.c...icts-by-victim/

Edited by SuperSmith, 22 November 2013 - 03:52 PM.


#1412    SuperSmith

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 04:44 PM

For PC:

Connection?

http://www.abc27.com...squehanna-river

http://www.ydr.com/l...-manchester-twp

Discoveries were only 28 miles apart.

I hate York!!


#1413    SuperSmith

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 04:55 PM

Was this ever determined?

http://www.pennlive...._in_center.html


Nevermind................

Edited by SuperSmith, 22 November 2013 - 04:58 PM.


#1414    MrsPC

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 01:18 AM

View PostSuperSmith, on 22 November 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

For PC:

Connection?

http://www.abc27.com...squehanna-river

http://www.ydr.com/l...-manchester-twp

Discoveries were only 28 miles apart.

I hate York!!

yeah I had read that first link when they first made the discovery but haven't seen an update since...guess they're still testing in TX (and I think JJ had posted about this article too on WS when it occurred)


#1415    2-B

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 03:49 PM

View PostBay Harbor Butcher, on 21 November 2013 - 07:09 PM, said:

very good point, his odds are close but never once will he consider another scenario on a forum.

I've followed the WS boards for a long time and went back to the beginning and read most of them in my free time at work haha...

what do you think his motive is?

i've  discussed Luna with him as well, what do you make of that case out of curiosity?

Big questions here, BHB, and I know full well not everyone sees things as I do. But over years of closely following (and arguing with) this personality, I have become 99.44% convinced he must be working as someone's agent. Goal? To shape and justify a public position supporting Gricar as potential cad, willing to change a lifetime of devotion to family, constituents, justice, and service, simply to scam the public by demonstrating that he was brilliant enough to pull off a Wiley-like walkaway, thus reducing or eliminating public pressure for LE to investigate foul play. He employed a similar strategy for a shorter time and to a lesser extent with Poor Luna, whom he portrayed in the worst of all possible lights.

I did not reach this position lightly or quickly, and I could never begin to support it in one or even a few posts on a message board. But I might start your thinking on the issue by giving you a couple tidbits to chew on.

Number One. It's unusual though not unheard of for folks to offer explanations for why they're posting on a specific case. When they do, it's usually a short and sensible explanation--they are local; they have lost a loved one in a similar fashion; they're fascinated by such cases; they saw a TV show on the case; that sort of short, sweet, logical thing if anything at all.

Not JJ though. At one point he launched into a bizarre, lengthy explanation of his interest in the Gricar case: he didn't love a mystery; it wasn't the (so-called) local connection; it wasn't X, Y, or Z or 1, 2, or 3. Nope, friends, his interest stemmed from Gricar's position as a public servant and JJ's own history as a public servant and the concern that whatever had happened to Gricar could therefore happen to him.

Okay. Except for a couple major logical lapses, not the least of which is the vehemence with which JJ has argued AGAINST the idea that Gricar's job left him open to foul play. Anyone who was around when the PSP-CIA results came back saying RG was at no inherent risk because of his profession will remember JJ's lengthy defenses of that position.

So it has always struck me as strange that he went out on a limb to offer a reason for his interest in the case to begin with, then wound up offering one that made no logical sense whatsoever. He has pushed walkaway since Day 1 while denying that through his use of statistical odds (lies, damn lies, and statistics). Why offer an explanation for an interest in a case that's allegedly a fear "it" could happen to you when the "it" you're so clearly focused on is walkaway??

Number 2 I've mentioned recently, and that's the dissonance between the boasts of Mensa-level intelligence and the utterly moronic use of evidence and logic so frequently employed. One cannot simultaneously be that smart and appear that dumb unless one is deliberately attempting to gaslight an audience. (What's frightening to me is how easily he's been able to gaslight readers in certain quarters!)

Number 3 would be the pattern of repeated strategies those of us familiar with his handiwork have come to recognize.

Now if these things (above) and others suggest that his work is that of an agent rather than some random, independent poster, that would make him, as I've suggested before, a puppet acting at the behest of a puppeteer. But who? And why?

Still all guesses, but my guesses are narrowed to 2 broad areas at this point:

1. A political entity. Back at CL I had started a thread for collecting evidence that might link his own political involvement to various things such as the sex crimes Luna was investigating when he died, JJ's treatment of Bill Kiesling, his contradictory statements about his voting record for Tom Corbett, some parallels between things Gricar was looking at with Sandusky and things Luna was looking at in DC and York, etc. it was still all very loose, but as another poster, MAV, noted, money and power and sex were often a powerful combination....

2. A personal entity. Long before the Sandusky case broke, I began to see connections of geography and time which may suggest that El Bogo could be part of a personal web surrounding RG (even if he did not personally know RG) and that he is acting on behalf of a party or parties closer to the inner circle.

All speculation and supposition on my part based on much more evidence than I can cover here.



"I'm team whatever freaking happened."

~Michaela on ABC's fabulous "How To Get Away With Murder"

#1416    MrsPC

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 02:13 AM

on the recently found York remains

http://www.pennlive....man_remain.html

and this one states he could be 60 yrs of age - with a partial denture

http://www.abc27.com...-for-3-10-years

did RG have a partial plate?

NAMUS on RG just says Dental information/charting is available





Edited by MrsPC, 26 November 2013 - 02:32 AM.


#1417    MrsPC

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 03:03 AM

just the archived link to the original Gricar website that was previously managed by Tony Gricar

http://web.archive.o....raygricar.com/


#1418    SuperSmith

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 04:36 PM

View PostMrsPC, on 26 November 2013 - 02:13 AM, said:

on the recently found York remains

http://www.pennlive....man_remain.html

and this one states he could be 60 yrs of age - with a partial denture

http://www.abc27.com...-for-3-10-years

did RG have a partial plate?

NAMUS on RG just says Dental information/charting is available





A long shot it being him but definitely worth tracking.  I wonder if there was any clothes left on the remains.

View PostMrsPC, on 26 November 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

just the archived link to the original Gricar website that was previously managed by Tony Gricar

http://web.archive.o....raygricar.com/

Thank you for this.  This is especially good for those who never got to see the website such as myself.


#1419    lw-intuit

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 04:44 PM

View PostSuperSmith, on 26 November 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:



A long shot it being him but definitely worth tracking.  I wonder if there was any clothes left on the remains.



Thank you for this.  This is especially good for those who never got to see the website such as myself.

Likely an adult: Preliminary examination of the bones suggests they belonged to an adult, Stabley said.

Also found was one piece of unisex-type clothing, he said.

http://www.yorkdispa...ster-site-where


#1420    SuperSmith

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 05:55 PM

View Postlw-intuit, on 26 November 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

Likely an adult: Preliminary examination of the bones suggests they belonged to an adult, Stabley said.

Also found was one piece of unisex-type clothing, he said.

http://www.yorkdispa...ster-site-where

Yes, that definitely is established.  PC's article indicates a male  30 to 50 years of age and the remains were there 3-10 years


#1421    Saunterer

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 06:00 PM

View PostMrsPC, on 26 November 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

just the archived link to the original Gricar website that was previously managed by Tony Gricar

http://web.archive.o....raygricar.com/
For SS & others: That was the oldest archived image.  You can use the bar at the top of the page to see how it changed over time.


#1422    SuperSmith

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 06:02 PM

Date of this article is April 2, 2005.  TC as AG created this Child Predator Unit.  In the article it indicates female AG agents posing as teenagers.  I am just wondering if there is any legs to the "Mystery Woman" if possibly it was one of these agents that may be turning evidence over to RG (hence the laptop)

TC created the Unit in January 2005 and since in March 2005 the AG was coordinating with Ray's office the big drug bust & prosecutions, that if the AG was doing the same with RG's office for Child predator prosecutions??

http://triblive.com/...l#axzz2lm7rLppz


#1423    SuperSmith

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 06:28 PM

View PostSaunterer, on 26 November 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

For SS & others: That was the oldest archived image.  You can use the bar at the top of the page to see how it changed over time.

Thank you Saunterer.  I just went back through and went from date to date and reviewed the changes.  There are a fairly significant amount of changes/updates, e.g. the fisherman finding the laptop, however even though it was pointed out that the hard drive was removed there was no update on the site for its discovery two months later.

It also confounds me that the website was apparently sold to some electronics wholesaler eventually.  Why not leave it up even if there was no time for updates to it?  It couldn't have cost much in fact I am creating a site now through a FREE service.  So why sell it out when the mystery remains unsolved.

Some of the family/friends actions or inactions are baffling to me at times.  JMO


#1424    SuperSmith

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 06:41 PM

Saunterer is over yonder asking questions about some financial stuff but specifically about Pa form Rev-1500 which deals with Inheritance Taxes.  I pulled up the form and was looking at some of the questions and it asks for how many "Safety Deposit Boxes".   That really clicked in my mind as I never even though about RG having one or more of these.  Safety Deposit Boxes are somewhat of an old school thing (in my opinion) as a lot of people use there own lock boxes, safes, etc.  That said some thing like that would be right up RG's alley given his age, the fact that he moved a fair amount over the years, and is an excellent place to keep your passport and valuables.

Not implying anything but I do wonder if he had one.


#1425    SuperSmith

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 06:44 PM

Saunterer, I do believe that only one page was received because A. LG filed a petition to keep the rest private & B. most likely she did that to keep her personal information from the public record such as her home address and the dollar figure of her inheritance.  Not is not unusual to me.





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