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The disappearance of Ray Gricar

ray gricar

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#601    Vincennes

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 07:51 PM

LW - You know this makes me realize one thing.  These statements have been tailored to make RG look badly every chance they had.  I was running over that Clerk's statement re. Ray seeming "anxious" that day and just looking at the bookshelves.  Reads he was pretty uninvolved right.  You know and I know that Clerk knew every darn thing that was going on in the matter and she/he (whatever)  knew Ray was angry.  Then purposefully tailored what was said.  It would also seem to me this was a pretty united front on the part of the courthouse club which really doesn't surprise me either.  WOW :no:


#602    Star1110shine

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 09:20 PM

She

View PostSuperSmith, on 07 October 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:



I was going to ask if Patty ever hired an attorney but I guess that wouldn't be needed since she working in the District Attorney office and could seek advice there.

Oh she got one and that's all I can say.


#603    lw-intuit

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 09:35 PM

View PostDuncansmom, on 08 October 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

LW - You know this makes me realize one thing.  These statements have been tailored to make RG look badly every chance they had.  I was running over that Clerk's statement re. Ray seeming "anxious" that day and just looking at the bookshelves.  Reads he was pretty uninvolved right.  You know and I know that Clerk knew every darn thing that was going on in the matter and she/he (whatever)  knew Ray was angry.  Then purposefully tailored what was said.  It would also seem to me this was a pretty united front on the part of the courthouse club which really doesn't surprise me either.  WOW :no:

In complete agreement here.............IMO, the investigation went south as a result of the unified front.  

The 'lead detective' and the media didn't interview anyone who might shed some light on what was actually going on at the time.  The entire investigation has been about 'diversion'.  It is interesting that here on the new board, that diversion is the first thing all noticed.  It was chocked up to RG's being the one who was 'diverting', but IMO, it is the unified front that has controlled from the git-go so that all attention remains focused on 'naps', 'mystery women', 'flirting' and 'underwear'.  As I said before, it is a match for the JLuna case -------diverted away from 'job-related' or 'mob-related' to victim's supposed character defects, none of which are proven nor do they add up either in evidence or with those closest to them.

JMO


#604    Vincennes

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:26 PM

That makes me certain I was right thinking what a stupid statement that LEZ had made regarding the "mechanism" of the dam destroying the body.  

Z was standing there at the parking lot where they had found Ray's car looking across at 3 bridges.  (At least one of those bridges isn't even used)  All of which offered a place from which Ray could "jump."  and he determines that, "No, Ray walked down a mile or more to the park....jumped in there, where there is no bridge, jumped right into the river from the bank."  :td:

IMO that means anyone truly wanting to find Ray's body should have immediately followed the river downstream from his car about 10 miles, turned right for another 10 miles and looked in whatever field is there.


#605    lw-intuit

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:38 PM

I would like to add that each of us veterans seem to have put the puzzle pieces together differently, since we all seem to have a different 'most likely' theory.
We have all taken the puzzle pieces and shook them every which way possible to see if we could come up with a new angle/slant that would bring all the pieces together.

I have always believed that the reason for the disappearance would be found by determining who had the most to gain.  I certainly didn't see it as being RG since from what I see, his is all about loss.............loss of relationship, family connections, monies, pension, planned retirement.  I also didn't see PF as gaining anything that she didn't already have.  None of the family members benefited to any huge extent that I am aware of so no other choice for me but to look outside the inner circle.

Others have put the pieces together different than I have, and while we may not be in agreement on theory, we continue to look together collectively for any new angle/slant that we might have overlooked.
My point is............Without more evidence than that which we currently are aware of, it's still only 'theory'.  No one has to agree with anyone elses.

JMO


#606    lw-intuit

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:25 AM

Just before our last board was shut down, the discussion of LanceM came up and the new house he was building.  I had looked at it's close proximity to JS as well as the possibility that some 'misbehavior' on LM's part had been reported to RG.  I questioned whether it was possible RG was on his way to the new home site of LM's to discuss something.  One thing I didn't think to factor in until now was the possibility that it was AVM related considering LM was the one working on the case with RG.

I have always thought this case was about betrayal at some level, whether it was inadvertent, such as 'slipping in conversation' and letting someone know that without RG, the case would be different.  IF RG put any new information on the laptop, might he have handed the laptop over to LM before something else occurred?  Was the call to PF possibly after a visit to the new home site or even old home site, wherever that was?  I continue to think the call was a 'marker' to indicate location where a problem arose, and I am staying with that thought.  Did RG decide to go for a ride after he went somewhere first with the laptop?

Guess the first question that needs answered is was LM working at the courthouse that day?  If not, where?

JMO


#607    simplybill

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:46 AM

View Postlw-intuit, on 09 October 2013 - 12:25 AM, said:

I questioned whether it was possible RG was on his way to the new home site of LM's to discuss something...  
I have always thought this case was about betrayal at some level....
Guess the first question that needs answered is was LM working at the courthouse that day?  
I don't want to point fingers, but maybe Ray is buried under LM's foundation. Does LM smoke?

I think you raised a good point in #605 post above: many posters have a favorite theory. I wonder if it's possible to see where the different theories intersect? It would be a cumbersome task on a forum like this, unless an organized effort was made.

lw - you also said: "no other choice for me but to look outside the inner circle."
Supposing we go outside THIS inner circle?
I haven't yet thought this out too deeply, but would anyone be interested in compiling a list of questions and suggestions to send to Matt Rickard? And if so, would you also be interested in sending the list to a reliable journalist? I know Sara Ganim isn't too popular here, but she does write a good story.

Edited by simplybill, 09 October 2013 - 01:06 AM.

Every warrior is happy when his enemies flee before him, but much more blessed is the man to whom his fiercest enemies can come with confidence, knowing beforehand they will be received with love.
Richard Wurmbrand in Reaching Toward the Heights.

#608    Vincennes

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:02 AM

The reason something happened is one thing but still, to me, there would be a telling factor in who it was by figuring out who had the ability to coordinate the misinformation.  There is someone who had a very strong hand to be able to accomplish that.


#609    susieice

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:13 AM

View PostSuperSmith, on 08 October 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

Exactly my point.  Purchasing the erasing software is much more like the character of RG then tossing them in the river.
Why would anyone dissect a computer, destroy the hard drive and throw it all in the river to destroy evidence of a case that had already gone to trial?

"The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to sharpen."  Eden Phillpotts

Opponere draconem est prehendere vitam

"I'm sure the universe is full of intelligent life. It's just been too intelligent to come here." Arthur C. Clarke

#610    Vincennes

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:22 AM

It doesn't make any sense to me at all that RG was so committed to a death penalty case for AVM if it wasn't solid.  Why would he go to that much work just months before he would be retiring.  And, why would he want to look badly by losing it just before he went out of office?  Why would the judge be so committed to screwing Ray up on it that he was setting the date for a time that would put Ray at a disadvantage to be there.  There had to be something that made that a solid case.  Was the judge throwing it into someone else's hands so that the outcome could be better controlled ?


#611    lw-intuit

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:23 AM

View Postsusieice, on 09 October 2013 - 01:13 AM, said:

Why would anyone dissect a computer, destroy the hard drive and throw it all in the river to destroy evidence of a case that had already gone to trial?

To misdirect...........to keep the focus on that area in Lewisburg thus avoiding any backtracking to Centre County.

JMO


#612    simplybill

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:26 AM

Susieice:
I agree. Also, what would be the point of Ray throwing the laptop in the river? He could have thrown the hard drive in the river, bought a new hard drive and left it at that.
Maybe someone else had used the laptop, and was concerned about the keyboard being covered in fingerprints.

Every warrior is happy when his enemies flee before him, but much more blessed is the man to whom his fiercest enemies can come with confidence, knowing beforehand they will be received with love.
Richard Wurmbrand in Reaching Toward the Heights.

#613    lw-intuit

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:28 AM

View PostDuncansmom, on 09 October 2013 - 01:22 AM, said:

It doesn't make any sense to me at all that RG was so committed to a death penalty case for AVM if it wasn't solid.  Why would he go to that much work just months before he would be retiring.  And, why would he want to look badly by losing it just before he went out of office?  Why would the judge be so committed to screwing Ray up on it that he was setting the date for a time that would put Ray at a disadvantage to be there.  There had to be something that made that a solid case.  Was the judge throwing it into someone else's hands so that the outcome could be better controlled ?

I think RG's evidence would have proved it solid and that he was capable of presenting it to a jury and winning the case.  I think that was someone's biggest fear.  Even if it didn't result in the death penalty, if the neighboring county's decision was any indication of what a local jury could hand down, I believe in that case it was 30 years in prison.

JMO


#614    Star1110shine

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:37 AM

View Postregi, on 08 October 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Oh, for crying out loud, we're talking about a laptop!

It follows that Gricar learned that erasing wasn't sufficient and he wanted assurance that whatever was on the hard drive could never be discovered.
You and I do not know Ray enough to assume what assurance he needed.


#615    regi

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 02:21 AM

View PostStar1110shine, on 09 October 2013 - 01:37 AM, said:

You and I do not know Ray enough to assume what assurance he needed.

I'm not sure you got the gist of what I said. I said it follows. You know, it's a 2+2 kind of thing.





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