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Something about God, our...creator.


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#1    ambelamba

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 02:14 PM

A few days ago an 8-year old child bride in Yemen died on her wedding night for...the reason that cannot be mentioned. And I bet less than 1/4 of UM members ever gave a damn on such news. And I F-ing bet some of you will defend the atrocity. Oh, yeah. I know it well.

Of course, the whole thing was pretty much the same throughout the history.

I do not consider myself as an atheist. I tried. But something didn't add up to me.

You know what? The whole insanity around the world might be the exact thing that someone out there wants. And I have a feeling that we are meant to be live in ignorance, superstition, and insanity.

A couple of days ago my psych told me that I have a very by-the-book mentality that does not tolerate any form of deviant behavior or sleazy BS. (never mind my avatar. I definitely have to let the steam out a little bit.) When I heard that from my psych, something went through my mind. I have a feeling that God hates me for the exact thing my psych informed me. I have a feeling that I am a kind of person who is most hated by God because guys like me are absolutely no fun.

I guess I am fighting a losing battle. And there's no transport to extract me from the zone. I am left alone and I am trying my best to survive as long as I can. And...

The true tragedy of mankind is that we are all THINKING PUPPETS. Yes, we are. And if you think a little bit about it you will see that it is a truly terrifying thing.


#2    Almagest

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 02:36 PM

You can waste your life trying to find its rationalizations. I know I probably will. If there's a hell-bound boat I'll probably be on it, all because my innate reverence for the world wasn't channelled towards a specific deity when I was a child. I don't think it's a matter of God hating you, in fact I think that's a little egotistical, I think you just have a mind that doesn't play well with dogma. You're not alone in that respect.

As for the 8 year old girl, the apologists response would be that God gave us free will. Well he also gave us a couple of revelations which teaches that women are the reason for the Fall and that they're only good if they're virgins for life.

Heaven and hell suppose two distinct species of men, the good and the bad. But the greatest part of mankind float betwixt vice and virtue. - David Hume

#3    Frank Merton

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 03:15 PM

The simple fact is there are evil men in the world who think of women as something for them to use, and Arabic (along with some others) culture endorses this.  The existence of God as a moral being is pretty well demonstrated to be false.


#4    Aggie

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 03:40 PM

God doesn't hate you....cause you don't know god exists.

I shed a tear reading about that little girl especially because my daughter is around her age. So many atrocities and barbaric acts condoned cause it's cultural tradition or told in a 'holly' book...can't people think for themselves? Do we always have to follow the masses like sheep?

We are not meant to live in superstition and ignorance cause science has helped us understand things that were deemed supernatural before. For example, science has shown us that humans DNA is the same in all of us and that there is only one race, the human race....but some still choose to be racists, they choose to be ignorant.

We are not meant to live in ignorance...we choose to.

No matter what happens....never stop believing in people.....never stop believing in love♥♥

#5    ambelamba

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 04:35 PM

I just changed my avatar. I guess this guy is whole lot less repulsive than the last one. :D But in Eastern 'tradition' this guy is a form of grim reaper. In a tale, this guy's kill score is...well?

Edited by ambelamba, 11 September 2013 - 04:38 PM.


#6    ambelamba

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 05:34 PM

I often go to Barnes&Noble because I love to be surrounded by book. But I try not to go to a public library because there are...petty thieves out there.

I was at the Montclair branch yesterday. And I was browsing through magazine stands. Well...something happened to me.

Many of those magazines with different subject matters suddenly started making me feel alienated. All those magazines about glitz and glamour felt so...alien to me. This never happened before. All the magazines about all the material and superficial things made me feel baffled and alienated.

The least alienating subjects were about science, technology, art (good ones), crafts, history and other scholastic issues, and spirituality. Actually, there's this magazine about film visual effect that I used to subscribe years ago, but now I don't because I couldn't even step into the industry. I don't hate it, but it kinda made me sad.

Many different feelings crossed my mind when I set my eyed on this particular magazine about upscale lifestyle. The magazine featured a couple of well-off women who are solving the global starvation.

I was furious. No, I was enraged. It was all goddamn joke. A farce. A damn puppet show.

The whole world can already produce enough food to make everyone look like Jabba The Hutt or Baron Harkonnen. And these bimbos are talking about getting rid of starvation? And guess what, I can confidently tell you that we do not need any goddamn GMO to increase the output of food production. Mechanized farming process is already enough to make everyone fat and happy. But the powers-that-be choose not to do so.


#7    Frank Merton

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 05:40 PM

I rarely buy magazines any more for all the advertisements and subscription and reply cards, and the fact that I think of all the trees.  The internet has anything those magazines have anyway if one routinely visits the sites one is interested in.

Books are a slightly different matter: in spite of the trees, electronic books just don't make it for me, at least yet, and they are too expensive for what you get.


#8    Jor-el

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 08:02 PM

View Postambelamba, on 11 September 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

A few days ago an 8-year old child bride in Yemen died on her wedding night for...the reason that cannot be mentioned. And I bet less than 1/4 of UM members ever gave a damn on such news. And I F-ing bet some of you will defend the atrocity. Oh, yeah. I know it well.

Of course, the whole thing was pretty much the same throughout the history.

I do not consider myself as an atheist. I tried. But something didn't add up to me.

You know what? The whole insanity around the world might be the exact thing that someone out there wants. And I have a feeling that we are meant to be live in ignorance, superstition, and insanity.

A couple of days ago my psych told me that I have a very by-the-book mentality that does not tolerate any form of deviant behavior or sleazy BS. (never mind my avatar. I definitely have to let the steam out a little bit.) When I heard that from my psych, something went through my mind. I have a feeling that God hates me for the exact thing my psych informed me. I have a feeling that I am a kind of person who is most hated by God because guys like me are absolutely no fun.

I guess I am fighting a losing battle. And there's no transport to extract me from the zone. I am left alone and I am trying my best to survive as long as I can. And...

The true tragedy of mankind is that we are all THINKING PUPPETS. Yes, we are. And if you think a little bit about it you will see that it is a truly terrifying thing.

I think you are incorrect ambelamba...

My heart breaks for the child, forced to get married at such a young age and having to suffer so much for living in a society that condones such atrocities. But you are mixing things up here... our societies weren't created by God, they were created by men.

If you want to blame anyone, blame them. If you want to judge anyone, judge them.

If someone hurts me, I do not blame God, I blame the author of the deed.

I also have to disagree with you on another matter, we are not puppets of God, we are puppets of other men or at the very least of our very own passions.

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"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis


#9    Almagest

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 08:19 PM

@Jor-El, but how do you reconcile that with contradictions of an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving being, who is present at every location in time and space at all times, yet allows this to happen. Either you have to go with God is all powerful but not all loving, or vice versa. As for the free will arguments, I don't think it is possible with a God who knows everything that's going to happen before it happens. My thoughts at least.

Heaven and hell suppose two distinct species of men, the good and the bad. But the greatest part of mankind float betwixt vice and virtue. - David Hume

#10    Jor-el

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 09:10 PM

View PostAlmagest, on 11 September 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

@Jor-El, but how do you reconcile that with contradictions of an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving being, who is present at every location in time and space at all times, yet allows this to happen. Either you have to go with God is all powerful but not all loving, or vice versa. As for the free will arguments, I don't think it is possible with a God who knows everything that's going to happen before it happens. My thoughts at least.

Hi Almagest,

All I can give you is my perspective here and perspective is the answer to your questions.

If God is Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omnipotent. (the three defining qualities of God), then for all intents and purposes he can theoretically do whatever he wants, whenver he wants and however he wants... unless he also has a another self defining characteristic that people rarely think about and consider... self constraint.

In other words he subjects himself to a set of rules that he abides by, not because he has chosen to do so, but because they are an essential part of what and who he is.

One of those rules, if not the defining rule, is that we are reponsible for our own actions. We live by the sword, we shall die by the sword. In all aspects, mankind has defined the type of society he has chosen to live in, God does not intervene in our choices and this leads to humanity subjecting itself to its own crass and base nature.

And just because someone has the power, does not mean it has to be used everytime we ask for help. Does it make him any less loving for not helping us everytime we ask? I do not think so.

As I said perspective is important here, and Gods perspective is that you don't cease to exist, even when your body stops and dies. From Gods perspective, nothing has changed except that you lost your body.

For evident reasons many people, believers and unbelievers as well, have reached the conclusion that we live in a nothing more than a very large and detailed virtual reality, which means that existence does not cease at death.

As for the free will argument let me draw a parallel here... think about it carefully and you will see that your argument fails after careful analysis...

There is a human gift known as clairvoyance. It is not my intent to argue whether it exists or not, but it does provide the basis for the parallel.

If you were clairvoyant, you would be able to have in many respects the same ability as Gods omniscience in that this gift does not depend on your intelligence or your knowlsdge, but that you are able to "know" without effort.

If you were perfectly clairvoyant, you could know every single detail about my life from beginning to the end and even if you did so, howe would that impact my freedom of will?

Simply put, it wouldn't, unless you actually did something about what you knew about me.

Just because God "knows", has no bearing on your freedom of decision at all. It would only have influence if he actually used that information to manipulate you and your decisions, which he does not do.

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"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis


#11    Sherapy

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 10:33 PM

View Postambelamba, on 11 September 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

A few days ago an 8-year old child bride in Yemen died on her wedding night for...the reason that cannot be mentioned. And I bet less than 1/4 of UM members ever gave a damn on such news. And I F-ing bet some of you will defend the atrocity. Oh, yeah. I know it well.

Of course, the whole thing was pretty much the same throughout the history.

I do not consider myself as an atheist. I tried. But something didn't add up to me.

You know what? The whole insanity around the world might be the exact thing that someone out there wants. And I have a feeling that we are meant to be live in ignorance, superstition, and insanity.

A couple of days ago my psych told me that I have a very by-the-book mentality that does not tolerate any form of deviant behavior or sleazy BS. (never mind my avatar. I definitely have to let the steam out a little bit.) When I heard that from my psych, something went through my mind. I have a feeling that God hates me for the exact thing my psych informed me. I have a feeling that I am a kind of person who is most hated by God because guys like me are absolutely no fun.

I guess I am fighting a losing battle. And there's no transport to extract me from the zone. I am left alone and I am trying my best to survive as long as I can. And...

The true tragedy of mankind is that we are all THINKING PUPPETS. Yes, we are. And if you think a little bit about it you will see that it is a truly terrifying thing.

I grew up in a fundie environment too and It was driven home constantly that if I was not following the bible every minute of everyday, in every second, in every way ( a Puritan type ideology) I was only  hateful in g-d's eyes.. So it is not much of a hop skip and a jump to infer that g-d hates you in all other contexts. I think it is so good that you are in therapy getting a chance to learn the skills of  what it  means to be normal/healthy. It is a lot of work though( I mean a lot) to overcome the indoctrination of childhood, but it is well worth the efforts. I am a very happy Atheist. LOL

Edited by Sherapy, 11 September 2013 - 10:34 PM.


#12    ambelamba

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 01:11 AM

I've been wondering why Hitchens had to drink and smoke so much. And also wondering why Dawkins seems to be on the edge all the time. Now I know why.


#13    Arpee

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 12:13 AM

View Postambelamba, on 11 September 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

A few days ago an 8-year old child bride in Yemen died on her wedding night for...the reason that cannot be mentioned. And I bet less than 1/4 of UM members ever gave a damn on such news. And I F-ing bet some of you will defend the atrocity. Oh, yeah. I know it well.

I don't know "what for" but based on what you said - it still doesn't sound like something I'd defend. An 8 year old is not mature enough to have a life partner for the rest of their lives.

View Postambelamba, on 11 September 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

I have a feeling that God hates me for the exact thing my psych informed me. I have a feeling that I am a kind of person who is most hated by God because guys like me are absolutely no fun.

It's strange to believe that an all-powerful God that knows everything, past, present, and future, can "hate" anyone. "hate" and "anger" is what happens when something is not going your way and it is out of your control.

God gave free-will willingly and already knew all of the actions and consequences that will happen - absolutely nothing should shock him in such an angry or hateful way.


View Postambelamba, on 11 September 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

The true tragedy of mankind is that we are all THINKING PUPPETS. Yes, we are. And if you think a little bit about it you will see that it is a truly terrifying thing.

You say that you are a "thinking puppet". If thoughts are being sent to you then who is this "you" that receives thoughts? The body, is ever-changing. You look in the mirror and it is of a baby, child, teenager, adult, or elderly person. The body is always changing. Thoughts and perspectives are always changing - but the "you" that observes all of these changes - physically, mentally, spiritually is constant.

In other words, you are not a thinking "puppet". You are an observer that is watching thought enter and influence the body.

"But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil." - Luke 6:35

#14    Jor-el

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 07:54 PM

View PostArpee, on 13 September 2013 - 12:13 AM, said:

I don't know "what for" but based on what you said - it still doesn't sound like something I'd defend. An 8 year old is not mature enough to have a life partner for the rest of their lives.



It's strange to believe that an all-powerful God that knows everything, past, present, and future, can "hate" anyone. "hate" and "anger" is what happens when something is not going your way and it is out of your control.

God gave free-will willingly and already knew all of the actions and consequences that will happen - absolutely nothing should shock him in such an angry or hateful way.




You say that you are a "thinking puppet". If thoughts are being sent to you then who is this "you" that receives thoughts? The body, is ever-changing. You look in the mirror and it is of a baby, child, teenager, adult, or elderly person. The body is always changing. Thoughts and perspectives are always changing - but the "you" that observes all of these changes - physically, mentally, spiritually is constant.

In other words, you are not a thinking "puppet". You are an observer that is watching thought enter and influence the body.

And you can also defend yourself against those same influences, you can choose not to give into them at any time. A puppet has no such choice or capacity.

Edited by Jor-el, 13 September 2013 - 07:54 PM.

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"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis





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