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God complex: Christianity


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#1    Turecast

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 05:12 PM

Well this thought started when John(we'll call him that due to privacy) said animals are just soulless husk and that human were the only creature made in "god's image" wouldn't this give mankind god complex in some way?


#2    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 05:46 PM

View PostTurecast, on 13 September 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

Well this thought started when John(we'll call him that due to privacy) said animals are just soulless husk and that human were the only creature made in "god's image" wouldn't this give mankind god complex in some way?

No, mainly his followers.

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#3    Rlyeh

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 05:47 PM

Only if all mankind agreed with this assumption.


#4    ambelamba

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 06:08 PM

View PostTurecast, on 13 September 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

Well this thought started when John(we'll call him that due to privacy) said animals are just soulless husk and that human were the only creature made in "god's image" wouldn't this give mankind god complex in some way?

Sadly, he's not the only one.

To me, at least mammals have some kind of common 'operating system' underneath. Why do scientists study animal behaviors? Because that's the key to understand ourselves! I brought this up a few months ago but some UM members refused to acknowledge it.


#5    GreenmansGod

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 06:26 PM

I didn't get sucked into the whole Abrahamic indoctrination of man's dominion over the Earth.  Being part of a Neo Pagan belief system gives you a different perspective on our fellow creatures.  We are all children of the Earth, creatures great and small.

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#6    Jor-el

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 08:28 PM

View PostTurecast, on 13 September 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

Well this thought started when John(we'll call him that due to privacy) said animals are just soulless husk and that human were the only creature made in "god's image" wouldn't this give mankind god complex in some way?

Two points I'd like to make...

1st the bible clearly states that all humans and animals have souls. What the bible does not say is whether animals have spirits. Man undoubtedly has. And yes there is a difference between soul and spirit.

The 2nd point is that most people do not clearly understand what is meant by "Man was created in the image of God".

It has got nothing to do with some characteristic or aspect of Gods character, it has everything to do with function.

We as humans beings were created with a single function in mind.... to be Gods "imagers" not in his "image. The text refers to a function or a responsability, not a defining charecteristic.

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.


28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

As God rules the heavenly and the physical realms, so has he created us to rule the physical realm. Just as angels were created to inhabit the spiritual realm, we were created to inhabit the physical realm.

Edited by Jor-el, 13 September 2013 - 08:41 PM.

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#7    Sherapy

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:40 PM

View PostJor-el, on 13 September 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

Two points I'd like to make...

1st the bible clearly states that all humans and animals have souls. What the bible does not say is whether animals have spirits. Man undoubtedly has. And yes there is a difference between soul and spirit.

The 2nd point is that most people do not clearly understand what is meant by "Man was created in the image of God".

It has got nothing to do with some characteristic or aspect of Gods character, it has everything to do with function.

We as humans beings were created with a single function in mind.... to be Gods "imagers" not in his "image. The text refers to a function or a responsability, not a defining charecteristic.

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.


28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

As God rules the heavenly and the physical realms, so has he created us to rule the physical realm. Just as angels were created to inhabit the spiritual realm, we were created to inhabit the physical realm.

One could certainly/legitimately interpret the bible in the way you are suggesting, Jor el. In fact, there are all kinds of interpretations of the OT- to be fair to you -- you are within your interpretative protocol, to offer an opinion of the NT as a truth-- when it comes to the NT, but if it relates to the OT one has to include modern scholarship too. Simply because In the case of the NT-- there is not a criteria for consistency set (that I know of), other then it is left to the discretion of the various expressions/and individuals. But with the OT-- Biblical scholarship is the conclusion specified when dealing specifically with concluding about the OT, in other words; one concludes based on the consensus of modern scholarship.

So to encourage an all inclusive dialog I want to open it up for this way too. So I am including what modern scholarship has concluded about Genesis 1-3. In a nutshell there are two accepted conclusions- according to biblical scholarship, one interpretation of Gen 1-3 was  the priestly promotion of honoring  the Sabbath and the second accepted interpretation/meaning is that with the discovery of agriculture this resulted in a change to societal organization."

For the record: I understand that for you-- you have concluded what you have shared and for you this is near and dear to your heart and you believe this implicitly and will post in a way that seeks to persuade anyone of your passion and devotion to this personal interpretation. Just so you know my intents are not to create a going no where argument, but a conversation that looks at all perspectives including biblical scholarship.

Edited by Sherapy, 14 September 2013 - 07:43 PM.


#8    Jor-el

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 08:39 PM

View PostSherapy, on 14 September 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

One could certainly/legitimately interpret the bible in the way you are suggesting, Jor el. In fact, there are all kinds of interpretations of the OT- to be fair to you -- you are within your interpretative protocol, to offer an opinion of the NT as a truth-- when it comes to the NT, but if it relates to the OT one has to include modern scholarship too. Simply because In the case of the NT-- there is not a criteria for consistency set (that I know of), other then it is left to the discretion of the various expressions/and individuals. But with the OT-- Biblical scholarship is the conclusion specified when dealing specifically with concluding about the OT, in other words; one concludes based on the consensus of modern scholarship.

So to encourage an all inclusive dialog I want to open it up for this way too. So I am including what modern scholarship has concluded about Genesis 1-3. In a nutshell there are two accepted conclusions- according to biblical scholarship, one interpretation of Gen 1-3 was  the priestly promotion of honoring  the Sabbath and the second accepted interpretation/meaning is that with the discovery of agriculture this resulted in a change to societal organization."

For the record: I understand that for you-- you have concluded what you have shared and for you this is near and dear to your heart and you believe this implicitly and will post in a way that seeks to persuade anyone of your passion and devotion to this personal interpretation. Just so you know my intents are not to create a going no where argument, but a conversation that looks at all perspectives including biblical scholarship.

I understand completely your approach here, but would like to ask how that in any way changes the meaning of the words I quoted?

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"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis


#9    GreenmansGod

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 10:46 PM

The problem with the Biblical idea of man ruling over animals is bears, tigers, lions and sharks haven't read the Bible and when you encounter one unarmed you might look more like dinner than God.

"The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost; for none now live who remember it."  Galadriel

#10    Sherapy

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 05:11 PM

View PostJor-el, on 14 September 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

I understand completely your approach here, but would like to ask how that in any way changes the meaning of the words I quoted?

Awesome!


#11    Jor-el

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:09 PM

View PostGreenmansGod, on 15 September 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

The problem with the Biblical idea of man ruling over animals is bears, tigers, lions and sharks haven't read the Bible and when you encounter one unarmed you might look more like dinner than God.

True, but the bible also says that we lost that authority when we sinned, we actually gave it away for an "apple"...

As the Targum Jonathan says:

And the woman beheld Sammael, the angel of death, and was afraid; yet she knew that the tree was good to eat, and that it was medicine for the enlightenment of the eyes, and desirable tree by means of which to understand. And she took of its fruit, and did eat; and she gave to her husband with her, and he did eat. And the eyes of both were enlightened, and they knew that they were naked, divested of the purple robe in which they had been created. And they saw the sight of their shame, and sewed to themselves the leaves of figs, and made to them cinctures. [JERSULAEM. And they made to them vestments.] And they heard the voice of the word of the Lord God walking in the garden in the repose of the day; and Adam and his wife hid themselves from before the Lord God among the trees of the garden. And the Lord God called to Adam, and said to him, Is not all the world which I have made manifest before Me; the darkness as the light? and how hast thou thought in thine heart to hide from before Me? The place where thou art concealed, do I not see? Where are the commandments that I commanded thee?


THETARGUM OF JONATHAN BEN UZZIEL, ON THE BOOK OF GENESIS. - SECTION I:III

The purple robe of kingship was lost, the purple robe of royalty was lost, we abdicated being Gods representatives on earth, Jesus whole purpose is to bring us back to this destiny.

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"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis


#12    Jor-el

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:11 PM

View PostSherapy, on 16 September 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

Awesome!

Does anything you said change the meaning there Sherri?

I don't think so but maybe I'm not seeing something that you are...

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"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis


#13    Leonardo

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:35 PM

View PostJor-el, on 16 September 2013 - 07:09 PM, said:

True, but the bible also says that we lost that authority when we sinned, we actually gave it away for an "apple"...

Strictly speaking, the bible does not say that. One person's interpretation (whether right or wrong) of some of the OT narrative says that.

The OT narrative relevant to this opinion (Genesis 3) is silent regarding Adam's rulership status over the animal kingdom; it does not state this rulership was rescinded by expulsion from Eden [falling from Grace].

Edited by Leonardo, 16 September 2013 - 07:35 PM.

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#14    Jor-el

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 08:33 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 16 September 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

Strictly speaking, the bible does not say that. One person's interpretation (whether right or wrong) of some of the OT narrative says that.

The OT narrative relevant to this opinion (Genesis 3) is silent regarding Adam's rulership status over the animal kingdom; it does not state this rulership was rescinded by expulsion from Eden [falling from Grace].

Strictly speaking the bible does not infact say that clearly but it is implied.

The parallel with Nebuchadnezzar's life is quite interesting here...

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#15    White Crane Feather

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:38 PM

View PostGreenmansGod, on 15 September 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

The problem with the Biblical idea of man ruling over animals is bears, tigers, lions and sharks haven't read the Bible and when you encounter one unarmed you might look more like dinner than God.
Don't forget gorillas, hyenas, rynos, elephants, gators, many snakes, wolves, and even a deer.

And of course the most deadliest thing in all of history. The Mosquito.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-




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