Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 1 votes

Those who believe in personal responsibility


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1    Yamato

Yamato

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,628 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 14 September 2013 - 08:02 AM

Are you personally responsible for what your government does?   Why, or why not?

This isn't a trick question and I have no motive other than to see what kind of debate its answers may trigger.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#2    Mikko-kun

Mikko-kun

    New life

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,475 posts
  • Joined:27 Apr 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amniotic fluid of consfious life

  • Observation, individual resourcefulness... what would we be without them?

Posted 14 September 2013 - 09:18 AM

I believe you're responsible of your own actions and of those who you advocate or vote, when they get to the position you voted them for. If you put your trust on someone else, it's your responsibility to be sure that person is worth your trust. If it wasn't, we could all wash our hands off things and say "government did it" and just vote a new retard to the office. I believe this goes on until people take responsibility of who they vote or not vote.

How to take responsibility? Dont vote the same candidate, the same party, dont vote at all if all who you vote for turn out douches.

Edited by Mikko-kun, 14 September 2013 - 09:20 AM.

I've been born again 31,8,2014 approximately 21:35 local time. A moment free of clutter in the mind, emancipating myself like an escapist, allowing myself to breathe life in a stronger, less physical level... though it does resonate to physical world. It's the oomph.

#3    Jeremiah65

Jeremiah65

    Seeker of knowledge

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,078 posts
  • Joined:25 Jun 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The mists at the edge of your dreams...

  • "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle

Posted 14 September 2013 - 12:40 PM

I def believe in personal responsibility..

.As far as the actions of Gov, I can only take part of the responsibility.  I am not their puppet master.  I can call them, write them and email them, but the final truth is I cannot control how they choose to vote on legislation.

What we can do is use the power of petition to get people tossed out early by recall if they continuously take a position outside their constituent's desires.

We don't have a lot of tools available to influence the GOV.  We need to learn to use them better.

That being said, there is only so much responsibility that you can lay at the feet of a voter when the Representative chooses to do whatever he wants.

Edited by Jeremiah65, 14 September 2013 - 12:41 PM.

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

Posted Image

#4    Yamato

Yamato

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,628 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 15 September 2013 - 06:02 AM

So based on the two answers so far, we are responsible to a degree because of the vote.   Is someone who voted for Obama more personally responsible for what Obama does than someone who didn't?   Does the adage "Don't blame me, I voted for someone else" apply?   Should it?

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#5    spartan max2

spartan max2

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,639 posts
  • Joined:15 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio

  • There's nothing so absurd that if you repeat it often enough

Posted 15 September 2013 - 06:34 AM

The quote " Evil thrives when good men stand idly by"' comes to mind.

I think we are all responsible for what our government does.

The population has more power and control over our system of government then we realize but people choose to either not pay any attention or be lazy and not put in any effort.

If everyone would pay as much attention to stuff as the people on UM then miracles could happen.

" I imagine that the intellegent people are the ones so intellegent that they dont even need or want to look "intellegent" anymore".
Criss Jami

#6    Mikko-kun

Mikko-kun

    New life

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,475 posts
  • Joined:27 Apr 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amniotic fluid of consfious life

  • Observation, individual resourcefulness... what would we be without them?

Posted 15 September 2013 - 12:44 PM

View PostYamato, on 15 September 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

So based on the two answers so far, we are responsible to a degree because of the vote.   Is someone who voted for Obama more personally responsible for what Obama does than someone who didn't?   Does the adage "Don't blame me, I voted for someone else" apply?   Should it?

No one's free from responsibility in my eyes, because everything has consequences. Butif you vote for Obama you're more responsible than someone who doesn't, it's a no-brainer to me. If you dont learn to take responsibility of your actions, then how can you assume anyone else does nor coach them to do that?

I've been born again 31,8,2014 approximately 21:35 local time. A moment free of clutter in the mind, emancipating myself like an escapist, allowing myself to breathe life in a stronger, less physical level... though it does resonate to physical world. It's the oomph.

#7    Jeremiah65

Jeremiah65

    Seeker of knowledge

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,078 posts
  • Joined:25 Jun 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The mists at the edge of your dreams...

  • "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle

Posted 15 September 2013 - 01:08 PM

We all have a level of responsibility.  Some a bit more than others.  Those that put the man in office are def more responsible than those that voted for someone else (cough-cough "Gary Johnson" -cough-cough).

However...we are all responsible in complicity.  We have ways and means available to us to stand up when we as a people overwhelmingly disagree with something.  There is not many of them but most people don't even try to use them.

I have never been happier with our population than over the last few weeks...when people from all sides and walks of life stood up and said "no intervention is Syria"...

I don't think the GOV was expecting that.  I think they expected some grumbles but close to 70% of the people was against it.  When was the last time 70% of us agreed on anything?...well anything of meaning or substance that is...

We need to better learn how to use the few tools we have available to us...we need to organize groups that will teach others and use those tools.  I make online petitions all the time but they never get very far.  Every few months or so I'll make a petition to term limit Congress...I refuse to give up on that one.

Edited by Jeremiah65, 15 September 2013 - 01:10 PM.

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

Posted Image

#8    Leonardo

Leonardo

    Awake

  • Member
  • 15,477 posts
  • Joined:20 Oct 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

  • Hell is a guilty conscience

Posted 15 September 2013 - 02:07 PM

In any 'democratic' system, the responsibility for the conditions of that system lie with the majority.

If a majority believe, for example, that Obama would be wrong to bomb Syria, but do nothing about it, then they are as responsible as Obama would be if Obama does bomb Syria.

However, democracy only works if the people are engaged in it. I do not see that as being the case in the US or the UK and so those nations cannot be said to be operating as true democracies.

Democracy also does not end with a vote at an election. It is a continuous process of participation.

Edited by Leonardo, 15 September 2013 - 02:08 PM.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#9    Babe Ruth

Babe Ruth

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 8,448 posts
  • Joined:23 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:27North 80West

Posted 15 September 2013 - 02:09 PM

View PostYamato, on 14 September 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

Are you personally responsible for what your government does?   Why, or why not?

This isn't a trick question and I have no motive other than to see what kind of debate its answers may trigger.

Good heavens no!  Even though my paltry tax dollars support the criminal actions of government, I am not personally responsible for how they spend my money.


#10    spartan max2

spartan max2

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,639 posts
  • Joined:15 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio

  • There's nothing so absurd that if you repeat it often enough

Posted 15 September 2013 - 04:16 PM

View PostJeremiah65, on 15 September 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

We all have a level of responsibility.  Some a bit more than others.  Those that put the man in office are def more responsible than those that voted for someone else (cough-cough "Gary Johnson" -cough-cough).

However...we are all responsible in complicity.  We have ways and means available to us to stand up when we as a people overwhelmingly disagree with something.  There is not many of them but most people don't even try to use them.

I have never been happier with our population than over the last few weeks...when people from all sides and walks of life stood up and said "no intervention is Syria"...

I don't think the GOV was expecting that.  I think they expected some grumbles but close to 70% of the people was against it.  When was the last time 70% of us agreed on anything?...well anything of meaning or substance that is...

We need to better learn how to use the few tools we have available to us...we need to organize groups that will teach others and use those tools.  I make online petitions all the time but they never get very far. Every few months or so I'll make a petition to term limit Congress...I refuse to give up on that one.

Iv honestly never heard anyone against term limits. I think everyone supports it just the people aren't mobilized about it.

Plus im sure the politicians will drag their feet to get that one done.

" I imagine that the intellegent people are the ones so intellegent that they dont even need or want to look "intellegent" anymore".
Criss Jami

#11    Jeremiah65

Jeremiah65

    Seeker of knowledge

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,078 posts
  • Joined:25 Jun 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The mists at the edge of your dreams...

  • "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:23 PM

View Postspartan max2, on 15 September 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

Iv honestly never heard anyone against term limits. I think everyone supports it just the people aren't mobilized about it.

Plus im sure the politicians will drag their feet to get that one done.

Exactly the problem.

I also know of no one against the idea...except politicians and their personal lobbyist friends.

This basically equates to asking the fox to build a fence around the hen house so that he cannot get in.

There has to be some way that the people can demand this with or without the Congress involvement.  It's just obvious they are not going to limit their own power...so how do we limit it when they refuse to do so.  I am not a Constitutional scholar, but there has to be some means for this scenario.

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

Posted Image

#12    Yamato

Yamato

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,628 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 16 September 2013 - 02:58 AM

View Postspartan max2, on 15 September 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

The quote " Evil thrives when good men stand idly by"' comes to mind.

I think we are all responsible for what our government does.

The population has more power and control over our system of government then we realize but people choose to either not pay any attention or be lazy and not put in any effort.

If everyone would pay as much attention to stuff as the people on UM then miracles could happen.
I agree.  But even people on UM get tired of the rants about government.  Ignorance is bliss.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#13    Yamato

Yamato

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,628 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:03 AM

Great answers here, wow thanks guys!

I think part of what stoked my curiosity with the OP questions was another question that came first:  Why are people so absorbed with politics?   Instead of just writing people off as unenlightened for not having a sense of self responsibility, perhaps having a sense of personal responsibility might come in different flavors.   People who want the government to do it, they may just want to throw money at it, and perhaps keep their time free to themselves (provided they have a conscience and a sense of self responsibility).     I don't really believe that people are bad at heart no matter what their politics might be.  The "bleeding heart liberal" comes to mind as just one cliche that fits.   I began to think that maybe statists have a sense of self responsibility too, but they would rather contribute their small share of it through taxes (in which case, taxation would be voluntary) yet at the same time, they don't have a greater modicum of control to iron out all the problems with the government many of us here on UM are very adept at identifying.   Sure if one's primary news source is Fox News Channel or MSNBC I can understand a long term side effect of too much exposure to those outlets might be that in order to think of any of the issues of our day, they all must get strained through the political filter first. I ignore these channels like the plague, not because I'm enlightened but just because I know I'm susceptible.

Time IS money imo, and helping people myself rather than just paying government to do it makes me feel a lot better as a person.  If every individual did a lot more, this world would be a wonderful place to be.

Okay I just read what I just wrote and it makes no sense so I need to edit it lol

Edited by Yamato, 16 September 2013 - 03:54 AM.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#14    acidhead

acidhead

    Were Not Your Slaves!

  • Member
  • 10,536 posts
  • Joined:13 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Victoria, BC CANADA

Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:06 AM

No.... you always hear the phrase, if you dont vote you dont have a right to complain...... thats total BS

Those who voted for the D's and R's are exactly to blame.  Each federal election is won by around 52%-48% by either the Ds or Rs.......... around 40% do not vote....  We have the right to complain to those who vote these morons into office.

Edited by acidhead, 16 September 2013 - 03:07 AM.

"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#15    Yamato

Yamato

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,628 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:44 AM

View Postacidhead, on 16 September 2013 - 03:06 AM, said:

No.... you always hear the phrase, if you dont vote you dont have a right to complain...... thats total BS

Those who voted for the D's and R's are exactly to blame.  Each federal election is won by around 52%-48% by either the Ds or Rs.......... around 40% do not vote....  We have the right to complain to those who vote these morons into office.
I agree completely that phrase is total BS...if we're not interested in any of the choices we're given, or even what our choices are promising to deliver, it's ridiculous that we have to vote for one of them first in order to complain about them later.   That "don't have a right to complain" mentality looks like a subconscious crack in peoples' reasoning that I think might also predict their tendency to believe in one major party or the other.

But if we take it all the way to just sitting it out and not voting at all, and if it's because our choice has no chance of winning, it makes me feel like we bought the "You can't win" soap.  

I can't win, when my candidate is being discriminated against in the bureaucracy, the media, even the debates.  I had to take my Ron Paul cap off at my place of voting, according to the rules.  Like a cap is going to change some last-second voters' mind who was indecisive and vulnerable?   A guy behind me had a Mitt Romney t-shirt and nobody said anything to him.   I walked back around to the entrance and stood in the doorway for a minute after I voted just to see if they would say anything to him on his way out.   Nope.  Maybe a cap is just easier to take off...yeah that's it.  I can't say it was discrimination...it might have been an example of discrimination they could get away with.   Anyway I took my hat off but I had a Kelly Pavlik shirt on, so I joked that actually I was there to vote for Kelly Pavlik.   "Is my shirt gonna be okay?"   "Yeah", they were fine with that.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users