Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 1 votes

Americans wary about Obamacare


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1    Yamato

Yamato

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 13,208 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 16 September 2013 - 08:46 AM

Three and a half years after the passage of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - also known as Obamacare - , Americans remain unconvinced that it will improve their own health care or the nation's, according to an NBCNews/Wall Street Journal poll.  The survey results come as the Obama administration and states prepare to offer insurance through "health insurance marketplace." Their ability to persuade Americans that are currently uninsured to sign up will be critical to the ability of those marketplaces to keep rates affordable.

Just 31 percent of Americans say the new health law a good idea, while 44 percent say it is a bad idea. The proportion of those praising the law has declined from 36 percent three years ago.

(Read more: Obamacare penalty: Your family could pay more for insurance)

How can we stop this socialistic rhinoceros that's already gored a chunk out of Medicare's rear-end just to get started?    I think we're capable of improving the system without Obamacare.  Returning to free market principles will bring costs down once these knuckleheads have to compete with each other.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#2    Rafterman

Rafterman

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,409 posts
  • Joined:27 Sep 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Upstate

Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:04 AM

I agree.

I happen to like the current approach being taken by some in Congress to outlaw all of the exemptions that have been granted to unions and certain large organizations.  Clearly the goal of the White House is to push the implementation of this monstrosity out beyond 2014 for obvious reasons.  Personally I think it's going to be a huge issue in the 2016 elections as people will have seen how it has impacted their families.  

I have also been shocked to learn that, even at full implementation, we'll still have roughly 40 million uninsured Americans.  Isn't that pretty much the same number we had PRIOR to Obamacare's implementation?





"For me, it is better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
                                                                                                                                           - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World:  Science as a Candle in the Dark

#3    Gromdor

Gromdor

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,848 posts
  • Joined:16 Jul 2011

Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:07 AM

Sad to say, but Obamacare was born because free market principles were unable to bring costs down.


#4    Simbi Laveau

Simbi Laveau

    Overlord A. Snuffleupagus

  • Member
  • 8,266 posts
  • Joined:26 Feb 2012
  • Location:Rim of hell

  • ~So what's all this then ?!

Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:20 AM

Companies are already making more positions part lime, and part timers will get no coverage.

So no, no one likes it. Go figure

Miss me?

#5    Yamato

Yamato

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 13,208 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:28 AM

When you can charge whatever you want, prices always go up!  That's not the free market by any stretch.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#6    Jeremiah65

Jeremiah65

    Seeker of knowledge

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,078 posts
  • Joined:25 Jun 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The mists at the edge of your dreams...

  • "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle

Posted 16 September 2013 - 01:20 PM

People are starting to see the favoritism and the "glad handing" going on in the back rooms.  Giving exemptions to big corporations is not fair.  They should give an opt out option to everyone.

There was a few good ideas in the package.  being able to keep a college student on your insurance till age 26 is a good idea and should have been that way all along.  The bad thing is...most of the insurance the average person can afford has huge deductibles and are basically worthless for anything but major medical...but you are going to pump a nice chunk of your income into them anyway.

The whole thing is a train wreck.  I have said before that if they were actually more concerned with the health and well being of us serfs and peasants...they should have offered a pure single payer system.  We all know that there would have been wailing and gnashing of teeth.  I think this confusing disaster is to give leverage to that..."Fine, the people don't want to pay profits to insurance corporations and Wall Street securities...we'll go with a universal single payer system."

I'm self employed.  We get our insurance through my wife's employer.  Not great, but not terrible.  We plan to see how this evolves and if the employee obligation raises.  If it does, we'll have to re-check our options.

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

Posted Image

#7    CyberKen

CyberKen

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,778 posts
  • Joined:05 Sep 2013
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 16 September 2013 - 02:03 PM

View PostSimbi Laveau, on 16 September 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

Companies are already making more positions part lime, and part timers will get no coverage.

So no, no one likes it. Go figure

Look for the big picture. Part timers make less money.

People who don't make anything can't buy anything. Consumer spending is 2/3rds of the U.S. Economy.

Ripple Effect: Our economy is flat lining................................

We will see 1% - 2% growth until ObamaCare disappears.


#8    CyberKen

CyberKen

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,778 posts
  • Joined:05 Sep 2013
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 16 September 2013 - 02:13 PM

View PostJeremiah65, on 16 September 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

People are starting to see the favoritism and the "glad handing" going on in the back rooms.  Giving exemptions to big corporations is not fair.  They should give an opt out option to everyone.

There was a few good ideas in the package.  being able to keep a college student on your insurance till age 26 is a good idea and should have been that way all along.  The bad thing is...most of the insurance the average person can afford has huge deductibles and are basically worthless for anything but major medical...but you are going to pump a nice chunk of your income into them anyway.

The whole thing is a train wreck.  I have said before that if they were actually more concerned with the health and well being of us serfs and peasants...they should have offered a pure single payer system.  We all know that there would have been wailing and gnashing of teeth.  I think this confusing disaster is to give leverage to that..."Fine, the people don't want to pay profits to insurance corporations and Wall Street securities...we'll go with a universal single payer system."

I'm self employed.  We get our insurance through my wife's employer.  Not great, but not terrible.  We plan to see how this evolves and if the employee obligation raises.  If it does, we'll have to re-check our options.

The Canadian Public Option will not come to the USA.

ObamaCare will have to be repealed.   90% of Americans were satisfied with the old system.

View PostGromdor, on 16 September 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

Sad to say, but Obamacare was born because free market principles were unable to bring costs down.

Bring Costs Down = Tort Reform


#9    Rafterman

Rafterman

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,409 posts
  • Joined:27 Sep 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Upstate

Posted 16 September 2013 - 02:55 PM

View PostGromdor, on 16 September 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

Sad to say, but Obamacare was born because free market principles were unable to bring costs down.

I would argue that the problem was the free market wasn't allowed to work in healthcare given that so much of the pricing was driven by government refund rates.  Also, true costs were always hidden from the consumer.  

Costs for day-to-day care would drop dramatically if we took a major medical approach to health insurance.  If folks paid out of pocket for things like annual exams, screenings, and standard office visits and left insurance coverage for major issues, we'd actually see competition come back into the medical market.  Wouldn't it be great to see a "two for one mammogram coupon" for you and your mom to come in on Mother's Day for example.  As it stands now, when is the last time anyone even ASKED what a procedure costs?  That's not the free market.

The ironic thing is that an Obamacare that focused on major medical only might even be affordable and provide coverage to 100% of Americans.

Edited by Rafterman, 16 September 2013 - 02:59 PM.

"For me, it is better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
                                                                                                                                           - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World:  Science as a Candle in the Dark

#10    Leonardo

Leonardo

    Awake

  • Member
  • 17,286 posts
  • Joined:20 Oct 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

  • Hell is a guilty conscience

Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:03 PM

View PostYamato, on 16 September 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

Three and a half years after the passage of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - also known as Obamacare - , Americans remain unconvinced that it will improve their own health care or the nation's, according to an NBCNews/Wall Street Journal poll.  The survey results come as the Obama administration and states prepare to offer insurance through "health insurance marketplace." Their ability to persuade Americans that are currently uninsured to sign up will be critical to the ability of those marketplaces to keep rates affordable.

Just 31 percent of Americans say the new health law a good idea, while 44 percent say it is a bad idea. The proportion of those praising the law has declined from 36 percent three years ago.

(Read more: Obamacare penalty: Your family could pay more for insurance)

How can we stop this socialistic rhinoceros that's already gored a chunk out of Medicare's rear-end just to get started? I think we're capable of improving the system without Obamacare.  Returning to free market principles will bring costs down once these knuckleheads have to compete with each other.

Not unless govt regulates the industry beyond what it currently has (which is practically zero.)

Competition, as we have learnt through "free market principles", without regulation leads to cabalism.

In essence, the healthcare reform is meant to implement regulation to protect the public against the healthcare & healthcare insurance providers operating as a cabal. It was never going to be perfect and, due to the modifications made to allow the Bill's passage into law, it is now much less effective than it could have been.

The American people want the best of both worlds - minimal govt and a private sector that is ethical, self-regulatory and works to the benefit of all citizens. That won't happen. You either have to protect the people from abuse by the private sector via govt regulation (which the average American wrongly believes amounts to Socialism) - balancing that against the need for the private sector to operate profitably - or you encourage the sort of dog-eat-dog society that America is in danger of becoming.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#11    Michelle

Michelle

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 16,464 posts
  • Joined:03 Jan 2004
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Tennessee

  • Eleanor Roosevelt: Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:31 PM

View PostRafterman, on 16 September 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

I would argue that the problem was the free market wasn't allowed to work in healthcare given that so much of the pricing was driven by government refund rates.  Also, true costs were always hidden from the consumer.  

Costs for day-to-day care would drop dramatically if we took a major medical approach to health insurance.  If folks paid out of pocket for things like annual exams, screenings, and standard office visits and left insurance coverage for major issues, we'd actually see competition come back into the medical market.  Wouldn't it be great to see a "two for one mammogram coupon" for you and your mom to come in on Mother's Day for example.  As it stands now, when is the last time anyone even ASKED what a procedure costs?  That's not the free market.

The ironic thing is that an Obamacare that focused on major medical only might even be affordable and provide coverage to 100% of Americans.

We ask because we're self pay patients. We canceled our insurance because it was going up from $1200 a month to $1400 for the two of us. In essence we told them where to shove it. We own a small business so we don't have the option of getting insurance through an employer.

We've found out that the doctors charge insurance companies almost twice as much for the same tests and the average office visit. Some of the tests are also not as "necessary" as they were when we had insurance. When doctors have access to almost unlimited amounts of money they will take advantage of it and justify any tests they deem fit.


#12    CyberKen

CyberKen

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,778 posts
  • Joined:05 Sep 2013
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:46 PM

View PostMichelle, on 16 September 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

We ask because we're self pay patients. We canceled our insurance because it was going up from $1200 a month to $1400 for the two of us. In essence we told them where to shove it. We own a small business so we don't have the option of getting insurance through an employer.

We've found out that the doctors charge insurance companies almost twice as much for the same tests and the average office visit. Some of the tests are also not as "necessary" as they were when we had insurance. When doctors have access to almost unlimited amounts of money they will take advantage of it and justify any tests they deem fit.

Democrat Howard Dean revealed that there is a Death Panel in ObamaCare.

It's called iPAB.

Independent Payment Advisory Board

iPAB will stop certain treatments by simply setting rates to levels where no doctor or hospital will perform them.

Rationing


#13    Rafterman

Rafterman

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,409 posts
  • Joined:27 Sep 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Upstate

Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:49 PM

View PostMichelle, on 16 September 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

We ask because we're self pay patients. We canceled our insurance because it was going up from $1200 a month to $1400 for the two of us. In essence we told them where to shove it. We own a small business so we don't have the option of getting insurance through an employer.

We've found out that the doctors charge insurance companies almost twice as much for the same tests and the average office visit. Some of the tests are also not as "necessary" as they were when we had insurance. When doctors have access to almost unlimited amounts of money they will take advantage of it and justify any tests they deem fit.

Exactly, you're proving what a free market system in healthcare would look like.  But I'm not sure I'd throw it completely at the feet of the doctors due to liability concerns and patient demand for such tests.  If cost to you is not object, then by all means, run 100 tests.  And if, as a doctor, you feel that they are unnecessary, you still run them because you don't want some lawyer questioning why you didn't.

"For me, it is better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
                                                                                                                                           - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World:  Science as a Candle in the Dark

#14    CyberKen

CyberKen

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,778 posts
  • Joined:05 Sep 2013
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:43 PM

View PostRafterman, on 16 September 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

Exactly, you're proving what a free market system in healthcare would look like.  But I'm not sure I'd throw it completely at the feet of the doctors due to liability concerns and patient demand for such tests.  If cost to you is not object, then by all means, run 100 tests.  And if, as a doctor, you feel that they are unnecessary, you still run them because you don't want some lawyer questioning why you didn't.

Limit the liability. Texas already did it!

Many doctors are moving to Texas!

We need Tort Reform.


#15    ninjadude

ninjadude

    Seeker of truths

  • Member
  • 11,115 posts
  • Joined:11 Sep 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Illinois

  • "dirt collects at the interfaces"

Posted 17 September 2013 - 01:59 AM

View PostYamato, on 16 September 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

When you can charge whatever you want, prices always go up!  That's not the free market by any stretch.

The exchanges, aka regulated markets, have already been shown to have lowered prices than are currently available.

"Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now!""
- Friedrich Nietzsche




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users