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[Merged] Poll: 53% disapprove of ObamaCare

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#16    Jeremiah65

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:19 PM

View PostCyberKen, on 16 September 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

Yes, it is unamerican to point a gun at 20 something Americans and force them to buy health insurance.

They should have the option to take that money and buy a new car instead.

ObamaCare = Iron Fist of Socialism

Not quite...

More like the iron fist of Fascism...remember, fascism is the veneration of the state, a strong, central leader...(he tries - executive orders anyone?), ultra-nationalism and militarism.  Basically our war mongers...McCain and Graham...would have done well in the Third Reich's upper circles.

If you really and truly want to know what Socialism is...look to Finland, Denmark, Norway and Sweden...THAT is true socialism.  Even Germany, France, the UK and some of the other countries accused of Socialism are not really straight up socialism.  If you want to know "true" socialism...look to the Nordic examples.

Edited by Jeremiah65, 16 September 2013 - 07:25 PM.

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#17    Agent0range

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:33 PM

View PostJeremiah65, on 16 September 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

The biggest problem with "the lowering of costs" s that it is forcing "the young invincibles" to buy a product that they can barely afford or do not need.  When I was in my twenties, I was a horse.  I never got sick, I never went to the doctor for anything...I take that back, I got injured on the job once and had to get stitches...the company paid for it.

What cracks me up is the folks that are calling this "socialism"...it is NOT...this is Crony Capitalism at it's finest my friends.  You are propping up one industry (the insurance companies) and their backers (the security exchanges of Wall Street).

What a great gig to have...have a corporation that sells a product the GOV demands that the public buy...nice deal if you can get one.

But it is not and isn't remotely close to socialized medicine.  Socialized medicine might be inefficient in some people's eyes, but "profit and stockholders" are not part of the general equation...get your facts straight before you b!tch and look like a fool.

I am against the whole thing because I do not appreciate being told what I have to spend my hard earned money on...that is the biggest complaint I have...that is not freedom...sorry.

I hope you don't own a car..because it is a law that you have to have car insurance.  Here is the problem with that uninsured 20 year old that you are talking about...Said 20 year old is healthy, but then he trips and falls and by dumb luck obtains some pretty horrific injuries requiring stitches, casts, physical therapy..the whole nine yards.  The treatment altogether costs the hospital approximately $15,000, but of course the 20 year old won't pay it (yes, some do, most don't).  Now, I go out and obtain the same injuries in yet another freak accident.  But, I am well insured.  Now, the hospital is charging my insurance company $200,000 to pay for myself, you, and some of the other uninsured people that have used the hospital over the past week.  So, what is the insurance company going to do?  Raise my rates because the hospital is overcharging to cover their losses.  Essentially, I am paying for all of the uninsured already through my higher insurance rates.  How exactly is that fair?


#18    CyberKen

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:37 PM

View PostAgent0range, on 16 September 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

I hope you don't own a car..because it is a law that you have to have car insurance.  Here is the problem with that uninsured 20 year old that you are talking about...Said 20 year old is healthy, but then he trips and falls and by dumb luck obtains some pretty horrific injuries requiring stitches, casts, physical therapy..the whole nine yards.  The treatment altogether costs the hospital approximately $15,000, but of course the 20 year old won't pay it (yes, some do, most don't).  Now, I go out and obtain the same injuries in yet another freak accident.  But, I am well insured.  Now, the hospital is charging my insurance company $200,000 to pay for myself, you, and some of the other uninsured people that have used the hospital over the past week.  So, what is the insurance company going to do?  Raise my rates because the hospital is overcharging to cover their losses.  Essentially, I am paying for all of the uninsured already through my higher insurance rates.  How exactly is that fair?

Buying a car is optional.

22 year olds should not be forced to buy health insurance.  They are already forced to pay into Social Security. Projections show it will go

bankrupt.


#19    questionmark

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:38 PM

View PostAgent0range, on 16 September 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

I hope you don't own a car..because it is a law that you have to have car insurance.  Here is the problem with that uninsured 20 year old that you are talking about...Said 20 year old is healthy, but then he trips and falls and by dumb luck obtains some pretty horrific injuries requiring stitches, casts, physical therapy..the whole nine yards.  The treatment altogether costs the hospital approximately $15,000, but of course the 20 year old won't pay it (yes, some do, most don't).  Now, I go out and obtain the same injuries in yet another freak accident.  But, I am well insured.  Now, the hospital is charging my insurance company $200,000 to pay for myself, you, and some of the other uninsured people that have used the hospital over the past week.  So, what is the insurance company going to do?  Raise my rates because the hospital is overcharging to cover their losses.  Essentially, I am paying for all of the uninsured already through my higher insurance rates.  How exactly is that fair?

And that is precisely the point. But I guess that some don't mind freeloading of society while squealing their head off about "socialism".

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#20    CyberKen

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:39 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 16 September 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

And that is precisely the point. But I guess that some don't mind freeloading of society while squealing their head off about "socialism".

Nobody forces Americans to buy a car.


#21    Agent0range

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:42 PM

View PostCyberKen, on 16 September 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

Nobody forces Americans to buy a car.

You are right.  Nobody forces you to buy a car.  But yet I am still forced to pay for the medical bills for the uninsured, just indirectly so that most people don't know it is happening.  Because, it is IMPOSSIBLE to force someone to pay a $100,000 medical bill.

And what makes it even worse is the fact that I am paying for the medical bills of people that make more money than me, but choose not to pay for insurance!

Edited by Agent0range, 16 September 2013 - 07:43 PM.


#22    questionmark

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:42 PM

View PostCyberKen, on 16 September 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

Nobody forces Americans to buy a car.

Nobody forces Americans to go to a hospital without the means to pay for it and/or insurance either.

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#23    CyberKen

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:54 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 16 September 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

Nobody forces Americans to go to a hospital without the means to pay for it and/or insurance either.

It is unfair to burden 20 something Americans with a huge healthcare bill.

Leave them alone.

They are already getting ripped off by pouring money into Social Security.


#24    questionmark

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 08:03 PM

View PostCyberKen, on 16 September 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

It is unfair to burden 20 something Americans with a huge healthcare bill.

Leave them alone.

They are already getting ripped off by pouring money into Social Security.

If they would stay out of the hospital when they can't pay for it I would agree with you.

The point is they don't, making people like me pick up their tab. And that is unfair. Much less fair that having somebody invest a few dollars in insuring that they will not go to the hospital on my hard (or less hard) earned money.

Edited by questionmark, 16 September 2013 - 08:03 PM.

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#25    CyberKen

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 08:11 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 16 September 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

If they would stay out of the hospital when they can't pay for it I would agree with you.

The point is they don't, making people like me pick up their tab. And that is unfair. Much less fair that having somebody invest a few dollars in insuring that they will not go to the hospital on my hard (or less hard) earned money.

The stats show that young Americans are not the problem.  They don't get sick like older Americans.


#26    questionmark

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 08:14 PM

View PostCyberKen, on 16 September 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

The stats show that young Americans are not the problem.  They don't get sick like older Americans.

Yeh? The stats show that they cause more accidents. To the contrary of older Americans. And healing human casualties of a car accident is much more expensive and guilty parties are not covered by car insurance. Again: emergency room at my expense.

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#27    CyberKen

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 08:18 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 16 September 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

Yeh? The stats show that they cause more accidents. To the contrary of older Americans. And healing human casualties of a car accident is much more expensive and guilty parties are not covered by car insurance. Again: emergency room at my expense.

90% of Americans were satisfied with the old system.  That's good enough for me. Leave the young Americans alone.


#28    questionmark

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 08:20 PM

View PostCyberKen, on 16 September 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

90% of Americans were satisfied with the old system.  That's good enough for me. Leave the young Americans alone.

Could you link to that? Because it seems to me that over 70% don't want Obamacare abolished. More than half of the 53% just want it more effective.

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#29    Jeremiah65

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 08:20 PM

Someone needs to learn to read better...not sure which part of things the scan readers missed....

You can take your forced purchasing and jump off the nearest rooftop...you folks make me sick to my stomach.

I deal with auto insurance because....it is part of the "privilege" of driving...yes, driving a car is not and has never been a "right".  I might not agree with that, but it has always been that way so deal with it as best your brain can.

I can't believe a wise @ss punctuation entity missed my posts about what socialism actually is...but he is clever that way...he chooses to ignore most of what I have to say most of the time.  He only agrees with those that seem to absolutely hate true freedom.  I love how he tries to walk both sides of the fence on nearly every issue...never taking a stand for anything..."If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything"....

I choose to be free.  You and your ilk cannot ever take that from me.  I live free every day and will continue to live that way until I get bottlenecked and caught.

This mandatory purchase of an unnecessary product is a farce.  You tried to dump the "what if this guy gets hurt and the hospital overbills my insurance"...that is not how it works Einstein...they claim their losses in taxes...which effects our taxes...not your stupid insurance rates.  The hospitals over charge insurance companies because it takes them so long to get paid by the greedy b@stards running the accounts payable arm of insurance.  Has nothing to do with the people that cannot afford to pay.  The GOV has long had a policy about denying service to emergency room visitors...can't do it.  It gets bled out in their taxes...profit and loss statements.  I would have thought such lofty minds would know these things.

irregardless, being forced to buy something "NOT" related to a privilege is a violation of our human rights...IMHO....I know...more of the sheep like it than dislike it...but we that "dislike" it are growing and one day...we will get this abomination thrown out.

Fine...you want socialized medicine...then you make socialized schools of medicine...you take a test and if you have the apptitude...you go...you learn...you practice...that is how they do it in those horrible places with the happiest citizens on the planet...

make me so ill and angry....I almost cannot stand it!

Edited by Jeremiah65, 16 September 2013 - 08:21 PM.

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

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#30    questionmark

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 08:24 PM

View PostJeremiah65, on 16 September 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

This mandatory purchase of an unnecessary product is a farce.

I, as I have said above, would agree if in return you would not accept any medical services you can't pay for. I don't mind people being free. I just mind that being free for some is the equivalent of a free ride.

If you are a risk you either do something to avoid being one or you create a backup for the case that the occasion arises.

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