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What do Americans make of evolution?


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#1    Angel1510

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:38 PM

Not sure if this is the correct place to put this but there's a new poll out today:-

http://www.richardda...as-fact-of-life

It never ceases to amaze me how people can just ignore scientific fact.


#2    Rafterman

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:44 PM

Religion and science is a complicated issue and I'm not sure a single poll can get to the heart of it.

I also find that the average person tends to lean toward the scientific, but they also seem to hold onto at least one "anti-science" view.  And this is regardless of political ideology (as most of these arguments try to paint it as a fault of the right in the US).  Sometimes I think the far left and the far right meet in the anti-science realm.

Case in point - I have fairly far left coworkers who like nothing more than to get their jollies off of those "dumb Republicans and Christians" who don't believe in evolution and climate change.  But yet those same people have very anti-science viewpoints of things like vaccinations and GMOs.

"You can't have freedom of religion without having freedom from the religious beliefs of other people."

#3    Angel1510

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:52 PM

Polls are always a bit dubious.  If I went into a church and polled 100 people I would come up with a very different result so unless you know the complete demographic you can't really use it as a clear marker of general public opinion.  Politicians historically manipulate polls in this way.  I myself would never dispute sound proven scientific evidence but I am probably amongst the many that also like to believe there is something else out there.  Until it can be proven scientifically, it will only be a belief and not a fact and I will always have to question it.


#4    questionmark

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:11 PM

View PostAngel1510, on 16 September 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

Polls are always a bit dubious.  If I went into a church and polled 100 people I would come up with a very different result so unless you know the complete demographic you can't really use it as a clear marker of general public opinion.  Politicians historically manipulate polls in this way.  I myself would never dispute sound proven scientific evidence but I am probably amongst the many that also like to believe there is something else out there.  Until it can be proven scientifically, it will only be a belief and not a fact and I will always have to question it.

That is why you make representative polls, that is on engineered in such a way that in theory everybody could have answered it.

To the theme itself, well that is easy understandable when we read this report

For those who don't want to bother let me present this excerpt:

Quote


On the PISA 2006 assessment, 15-year-old students in Canada

and Japan scored higher, on average, than their peers in all other

G-8 countries on the combined science literacy scale. The United

States scored lower, on average, than their peers in the United

Kingdom, Germany, Japan, and Canada

Summarizing: It is unfair to ask people about something they neither understand nor are adequately trained in.

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#5    Angel1510

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:21 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 16 September 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:


Summarizing: It is unfair to ask people about something they neither understand nor are adequately trained in.

But surely evolution is so fundamental, it is taught in schools around the world.


#6    questionmark

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:26 PM

View PostAngel1510, on 16 September 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

But surely evolution is so fundamental, it is taught in schools around the world.

I would not say it is fundamental, biology is fundamental. And if you don't understand Mendel's hereditary biology you will never understand evolution.

Well, most the majority remember about biology is that they had to dissect a frog, and a great percentage of those who don't remember anything about biology could not even explain why they had to do it. Mendel sounds like some kind of Jewish pastry to them.

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The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
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#7    Angel1510

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:33 PM

Maybe I should have said it is taught in schools which aren't church run schools!


#8    Drayno

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 06:44 PM

The thing about Americans is that we're all so very divided on many issues, including religion.

I would say that there are a large number of fundamentalists, atheists, agnostics, and protestants.

Like questionmark said, polls are only effective if they're truly representative.

Even then, the chances of getting a concise estimate is still very low.

Evolution, as an American, in my opinion, is viewed as still a theory in many respects.

Of course, despite being considered a theory, it has many credible arguments based off of scientific observation and research.

Darwin's speculation on the Galapagos Islands and how the life varied as a result of acclimating to environment - for example.

Hey, don't like my opinions? I can respect that. Just realize guns allow you to have that opinion without being labeled as mentally insane for questioning the state.

Political abuse of psychiatry in the USSR: http://en.wikipedia....he_Soviet_Union

#9    Angel1510

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:24 PM

View PostHatake Kakashi, on 16 September 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

The thing about Americans is that we're all so very divided on many issues, including religion.

I would say that there are a large number of fundamentalists, atheists, agnostics, and protestants.

Like questionmark said, polls are only effective if they're truly representative.

Even then, the chances of getting a concise estimate is still very low.

Evolution, as an American, in my opinion, is viewed as still a theory in many respects.

Of course, despite being considered a theory, it has many credible arguments based off of scientific observation and research.

Darwin's speculation on the Galapagos Islands and how the life varied as a result of acclimating to environment - for example.

I agree with your comments to a point.  As far as I am concerned Evolution is not a theory...it is a scientific fact  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution


#10    Drayno

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 09:45 PM

View PostAngel1510, on 16 September 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

I agree with your comments to a point.  As far as I am concerned Evolution is not a theory...it is a scientific fact  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

I only say that it's theory because there will always be more discoveries that have to do with it over time.

There will be additional information uncovered dealing with Biology and Evolution over the next hundred years.

Gravity, for example, exists - but there are many things we must learn about it over time.

Hey, don't like my opinions? I can respect that. Just realize guns allow you to have that opinion without being labeled as mentally insane for questioning the state.

Political abuse of psychiatry in the USSR: http://en.wikipedia....he_Soviet_Union

#11    Jeremiah65

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 10:27 PM

let me explain something....

I am not a genius...I am not even considered a scholar....I am just a dude that reads alot and wonders even more.

When the mighty-mighty minds can explain what happens at the core of a singularity....then I will listen intently....they cannot.   All physics breaks down at the event horizon of the thing they say brought our current reality into existence...so....even in the deepest and most intellectual parts of science...faith still exists....why faith?...because you cannot explain what happened...you say the "big bang" came from a singularity...but your logic totally fails at the event horizon....you sir...are living on faith...just a different kind of faith than the guy worshipping the sun....

I love the condescending attitude of those that are so pro-science...so little faith...yet your very mechanism...the big bang...cannot be rationally explained....I call that a giant fail

Posted Image

I am NOT advocating spooks and shadows....I am making a point....you...and me...know nothing....you dream of one road or another..."Oh it was a super being using mystical powers"....or..."it was the universe farting out a blast of gas".....

The truth is...none of these educated idiots have an answer...they will fight for "what they believe"...but when you take it to their inevitable cause....their logic falls apart like a butter Elvis sculpture in july....they do not "know" crap...they are gusssing....so...your "guess" is just as good as theirs...they cannot prove anything...other than their hatred for the possibility of a magnificent mind behind all of it....how ugly and sad are these pukes?

I am a non voter...i can see the hallmarks that say "intelligent design"...I can also see things that say..."it just popped the cork and let it run"....I don't have a huge problem with an intelligent mind running an experiment....perhaps one that is running it's course and needs to be shut down soon....

Edited by Jeremiah65, 16 September 2013 - 10:29 PM.

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

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#12    EtherialNight

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:18 PM

I once had a short conversation with a boss that I worked for who was a christian, he was complaining about "how they can still teach evolution in schools". I said "so you believe there was Adam and Eve first, so how do you explain Neanderthals"? He said "there was witchcraft around and some humans DEVOLVED" I thought to myself, "just let that go and get back to work"...


#13    EtherialNight

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:37 PM

View PostRafterman, on 16 September 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

Religion and science is a complicated issue and I'm not sure a single poll can get to the heart of it.

I also find that the average person tends to lean toward the scientific, but they also seem to hold onto at least one "anti-science" view.  And this is regardless of political ideology (as most of these arguments try to paint it as a fault of the right in the US).  Sometimes I think the far left and the far right meet in the anti-science realm.

Case in point - I have fairly far left coworkers who like nothing more than to get their jollies off of those "dumb Republicans and Christians" who don't believe in evolution and climate change.  But yet those same people have very anti-science viewpoints of things like vaccinations and GMOs.

Vaccinations and GMO is a totally different thing, this is not a case of a belief system or anti science.
GM food goes against the grain for many people {pun not intended} as it interferes with the natural order of things as it were, and when you look at huge corporates like monsanto who are applying to congress to have patents on all fruits and vegetables {which means you guys in the US will not be allowed to grow your own food in home gardens anymore} it's pretty far reaching into a control system over what people eat. Studies {yes science} have shown cancer growths in mice who have been fed GE corn.
There are also GE viruses that have been made in a lab, and "accidentally" released into the public, as was the case with bird flu in China.
Vaccinations can have very adverse side effects such as life changing permanent changes like autism, so I can see how a parent may be weighing these things up when they are told to vaccinate. The flu shot is a good example, there were strains of it that were causing people to get very sick, another is a cervical vaccination or gardasil vaccination for young women, that have apparently lead to death and also infertility in a few women. How can one vaccinate against cervical cancer anyway?


#14    Drayno

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 12:33 AM

View PostJeremiah65, on 16 September 2013 - 10:27 PM, said:

let me explain something....

I am not a genius...I am not even considered a scholar....I am just a dude that reads alot and wonders even more.

When the mighty-mighty minds can explain what happens at the core of a singularity....then I will listen intently....they cannot.   All physics breaks down at the event horizon of the thing they say brought our current reality into existence...so....even in the deepest and most intellectual parts of science...faith still exists....why faith?...because you cannot explain what happened...you say the "big bang" came from a singularity...but your logic totally fails at the event horizon....you sir...are living on faith...just a different kind of faith than the guy worshipping the sun....

I love the condescending attitude of those that are so pro-science...so little faith...yet your very mechanism...the big bang...cannot be rationally explained....I call that a giant fail

Posted Image

I am NOT advocating spooks and shadows....I am making a point....you...and me...know nothing....you dream of one road or another..."Oh it was a super being using mystical powers"....or..."it was the universe farting out a blast of gas".....

The truth is...none of these educated idiots have an answer...they will fight for "what they believe"...but when you take it to their inevitable cause....their logic falls apart like a butter Elvis sculpture in july....they do not "know" crap...they are gusssing....so...your "guess" is just as good as theirs...they cannot prove anything...other than their hatred for the possibility of a magnificent mind behind all of it....how ugly and sad are these pukes?

I am a non voter...i can see the hallmarks that say "intelligent design"...I can also see things that say..."it just popped the cork and let it run"....I don't have a huge problem with an intelligent mind running an experiment....perhaps one that is running it's course and needs to be shut down soon....

Personally, I fall under the category of someone who will readily admit they don't know too much.

Much of science is speculation.. In fact, almost all of science is speculation as much as it is imagination.

Scientists must go through numerous experiments; most of which will fail, to get a final product.

Science isn't about being right 100% of the time; it's about being wrong 99% of the time - to learn from those mistakes.

Some scientists, the likes of Stephen Hawking or Michio Kaku, I will entertain myself with because they're educated.

They have the mathematics to back up their ideas and speculations - and go to rigorous lengths to get final products.

As for Intelligent Design, I don't have much to say other than I have a personal opinion that isn't too nice.

Hey, don't like my opinions? I can respect that. Just realize guns allow you to have that opinion without being labeled as mentally insane for questioning the state.

Political abuse of psychiatry in the USSR: http://en.wikipedia....he_Soviet_Union

#15    stereologist

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:33 PM

Quote

I love the condescending attitude of those that are so pro-science...so little faith...yet your very mechanism...the big bang...cannot be rationally explained....I call that a giant fail
That's not a fail. Science is simply being clear about what is known and what is not.

To claim it is a fail is akin to claiming we know nothing because there are things we do not know about. The fact is that in many areas we do know a lot. In other areas we do not.

Quote

The truth is...none of these educated idiots have an answer...they will fight for "what they believe"...but when you take it to their inevitable cause....their logic falls apart like a butter Elvis sculpture in july....they do not "know" crap...they are gusssing....so...your "guess" is just as good as theirs...they cannot prove anything...other than their hatred for the possibility of a magnificent mind behind all of it....how ugly and sad are these pukes?
That's a lot of venom you are spouting.

So you are claiming we know nothing because there are things we do not know. That makes no sense. There will always be new things to learn, don't you agree? Does that mean we will never know anything? I don't think so.

The problem with ID, is that it serves no purpose. There is no need to suppose the existence of intelligence. The system works without it. ID supposes an unnecessary addition.

What science attempts to do is allow all of us to duplicate the work of others, thus verifying that statements are correct. The charge of an electron is a common experiment for students to do. There is also the speed of light. There are experiments in chemistry, physics, and biology that are often done by students to repeat previous work - to see for themselves that the work is correct.





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